Ultimate Leisure Share Discussion Threads

[frizsand2] 28/7/2005 12:05

Maybe due to repositioning. As appear to be taken up by a broker for another broker, but Im guessing. Such a small amount appears to odd to be anything else. However one to watch. Will expect to see other news soon.

Ju

[nghomi] 28/7/2005 11:42

Cantor Fitzgerald Europe has started to reduce! Any ideas why?

[frizsand2] 27/7/2005 11:40

BEAR STERNS INT UPS TO 15.41, THINGS GETTING MORE INTERESTING BY THE DAY.

HOPE U HAVE ALL KEPT THE FAITH.

REGS JU

[frizsand2] 26/7/2005 11:04

Ian - Agree about ULG, certainly hotting up.

DDC I think that the commercial property in Eastern Europe will be good longer term bet, remember its all about ROCE see div forcast. Will wait for the news thread or create one.
regs Ju.

[jeffian] 26/7/2005 10:13

No, Julie, not into DDC tho will keep an eye on it. From what I read it's a straightforward property play with a bias towards the emerging economies of Eastern Europe. Not sure what I think about that. I have some money in a couple of the Eastern Europe/Emerging Economies managed funds on the basis that an awful lot of production will be switched from the expensive West to the cheap East, but whether this will translate into higher property values there is another thing. For that you need not only higher demand but also restricted supply, and I don't know if that applies.

Meanwhile, things still bubbling along at ULG.

Regards, Ian

[frizsand2] 25/7/2005 18:06

Man ups stake to 4.24% also see after hour sales.

Ian - are U in with DDC tommorow, what do you think.(Dawnay Day Carpathian)Supposed to float tommorow on AIM. See FT

Regs Ju

[frizsand2] 25/7/2005 16:15

Hi Ian - Absolutely agree - if it were my Company I would be out on the lawn hard hat on bazooka in hand and demanding and explanation (minding the nails of course and only with colour co-ordinated camouflage paint). Strange that it is not happening. U obviously have been counting as I have, and it seems they must just be under the threshold, through the use of shenanigans. But I would say with voting rights on CFD's don't forget that although they do not strictly count, once they have reported that they have asked for a beneficial interest or the wish to convert, then they will be treated the same by FSA as to intent. Today there has been the sale posting by Deutche, which we will wait to see who is taking.

If the institutions don't take then it might give us little guys a chance to get some they are very tightly held. Mind U that is probably because the MM is out to lunch.

As to the bacofoil it obviously works well.

What do we think of the float of DDC tommorow Im in for this are U.

Regs Ju

[jeffian] 25/7/2005 14:55

Hi Jools,
Been out and about so only just seen your posts. LOL re the Bacofoil hat aerial; good mental picture!

I agree with you. DD are simply 'activist shareholders' who like to stir things up. They may have no specific plan themselves but scent that someone else will and by focussing on asset-backed shares there is limited downside risk. Lyne looks to be more serious as he is in the business.

Whatever the total amount of DD's holding, their CFD's don't 'count' under the rules which require someone to bid once their shareholding exceeds 29.9%. If, however, it becomes clear that they have a significant interest (and I would have thought we are at or past that point) the FSA could ask them to clarify their intentions (as they did with Bonnier/Regus). Mind you, so could the existing Board and as Rankin still has a substantial holding, even after recent shares sales, you would think he'd ask politely why all the tanks are parked on his lawn with their turrets pointing his way!

Regards, Ian

[frizsand2] 25/7/2005 12:37

Deutche bank no longer have an interest in ULG. But share buying up today. Also will see who takes up Deutche shares

One for the diary.

Dawnay Day, the property and financial services group, is launching a company that will invest £750m in the fast-expanding markets of central and eastern Europe.
Dawnay Day Carpathian, will announce today that it is seeking a listing on Aim.

Looks set to trade 26/07

Regs Ju

[frizsand2] 25/7/2005 10:58

nghomi - Im not digesting 100% of what had been said either and I said a lot of it. U are correct that DD has not taken over ARD but they went in to stimulate bid interest and at one point were in talks, they suggest later that they are in for recovery. But looking at the rns and other news feeds on the building of a stake in ARD it follows a similar pattern. To this end it makes ULG a risk in that they are either trying to stimulate interest and they may have an interested party in Sean Lynne or they are as you say investing in property rich companies rather than banking the money. But as an ex company owner myself I find this a difficult concept unless I had another ulterior motive. It's true that DD´s Mo is to go in when trouble is on the horizon, so in the long run D.D has a good chance of hitting on successful bid targets. DD has controlling stakes and can steer things they way they want.

As for the 30% holding - this still seems a little sketchy, as Cantors have only given DD associates jetpath and Forwardissue 360,000 interest to each of the parties, however they are holding 23% so it is confusing.

As for Man they are confusing for me but maybe they represent Lynne, all will be clear soon Im sure. They must be covering CFD´s and could still represent D.D but have not yet handed over interest as you say once the 30% is reached they have to state interest. It is becoming clear that they are avoiding this.


However I have always been a conspiracy theorist, only last week i saw a UFO over London, as we speak I sit with Bacofoil on my head waitng for communication.

Are U following Ian.

regs Ju

[nghomi] 24/7/2005 20:15

Firstly I found the quality of current posting very high and I must admit that I am not 100% digesting what has been said! I have bailed out for a while now with a small profit. I think directors would have been still holding if they thought this was going to be acquired.

Secondly, I am sorry but I have to say that I don't understand what is the relationship between ARG and ULG. As you say, DD has had voting power in aggeregate of just under 30% (ARD) for more than 6 months. They obviously have not taken over ARD yet! If the same thing repeats itself, then the chances are that ULG share price will be significantly lower than the current price in six months time. Perhaps DD is obliged to invest their spare cash in companies such as ULG (property rich) rather than keeping it in the bank?

Thirdly, are you saying that DD and Cantor are also associates? Hence, you are saying that they have passed the 30% magic number? If so, shouldn't they have said so in one of these RNS's? How long can they keep this in secret as far as the AIM rules are concerned? (If they are associates, they have passed the 30% magic number for several days now!)

Fourthly, what is the significance of 3.6% holding of Man Financial Limited? This is too complicated for me. I'd rather just watching than doing any action:-)

[frizsand2] 22/7/2005 16:56

Same team same set up for Austin reed, bet U all know this, I have to catch up.

Austin Reed
(ARD)
Retail Cantors 19.01% (6,080,922)
Dawnay Day 26.11% (8,351,395) +120,000

ForwardIssue (550,000) CFD

Jetpath (550,000) CFD

Dawnay Day has effectively taken on Shami Ahmed's
stake. Dawnay's stake is now 28.58% in aggregate.
ForwardIssue & Jetpath beneficially own the majority of
Cantors stake. Last trading statement 19/01/05.

Well boys Looks like an interesting week ahead. All the players now in and all inplace mann work with Cantors and complete by looks of it.

Regards Julie

[frizsand2] 22/7/2005 16:11

The Company was today notified that Man Financial Limited are the beneficial
holders of 878,750 ordinary shares in the Company representing 3.6% of the
issued share capital of the Company.
Looks like their covering the CFDs
Perhaps to convert to benificial holdings. mmm But Im no expert on CFDs Perhasp U guys can elaberate. U have more info than me.

Regs Ju

[frizsand2] 22/7/2005 13:21

Hi Guys,

Cantor just posted additional 30K shares purchase date 21/7 now at 23.04% Share price as yet unchanged.

Ju

edit > Bid up 3p on 10K purchase

[frizsand2] 22/7/2005 12:17

Hi Gym Bunny,

Agreed - Ju

If u decide to get jitters let me know. Dont want to be the last one standing you get shot that way. Its called "sync selling"

Watch that sports stuff though its bad for your health. Personaly I prefer swimming heavy equipment breaks your nails.

Sorry to hear all the news again today. But the police caught them. Good.
regs Ju

[jeffian] 22/7/2005 11:28

Don't worry; Flippancy is my middle name. You beat me by a couple of years in the early retirement race, but that was back in 1998 so I'm in fully relaxed mode now, 30lbs lighter, gym-bunny and sports fanatic, and thrilled to have time for all those other things in life that work gets in the way of.

Since you ask, I'm not sure why I'm still in this one other than the clear indication that 'something's up'. Certainly the reason I first bought in has proved to be wrong and if I followed my own rules I should have been straight out the door on those first Director share sales. However, now I'm here I may as well stick around for a bit of fun; even it it goes the wrong way when all is revealed, I doubt it'll be worthless in view of the property assets.

Regards, Ian

[frizsand2] 22/7/2005 10:52

Hi Ian, we agree. Glad U told me about regus. I agree that there are simularities with this but think that maybe not for the same reason. Only DD has CFDs
As for the FSA, agree that they must be looking hard now. However it leaves us with a dilema. Like U we are long in the tooth also But i have had a time away from the financial world having returned this year to all manor of changes and mayhem, as also in Currencies but have been for a long time, (no not the betting type). We my partner of the title name sand, hold trading accounts in solid bucks, euros, etc etc. However just started to trade equities again after many years in our own chemical comany. I have now retired at the grand old age of 44 well not quite just changed what I do, now only work 7.30 until well maybe 6.30pm, if dont go to the beach. I try occasionally!. (does that make U feel Younger)

Now, have given U my reume. Back to Ultimate. If the similarity to regus holds true the only reason to prop would be the longs they hold. But cannot see the point. However it is in the back of my mind.Had discussion earlier about this.

It does seem odd that they are using many names to buy, ie Cantor then disclose its for Jetpath etc, so only those of us looking close will pick up its an associate of DD. As I can see they have already gone past 30% unless they sold some yesterday we still have an un-identified large seller. Once this comes out maybe the chips will fall into place. IE have any in the loop reduced at all to keep under the threshold. If not then they will be forced to make a declaration of their intent.
U are still in Ian so why are U.
Did´nt mean to sound flippant earlier, but relieves the tension.

Regards Julie

[jeffian] 22/7/2005 10:04

That's probably 'cos we're old and tired and been around a bit, Jools (at least in my case). If I try and play the comedian, my children say it makes them cringe ('tho that can be an incentive!). Respect, dude! (see what I mean?).

The Regus thing was a bit of a scam where a share-support ring was using CFD's to bolster the share price of the company while it was in trouble to give it time to re-structure itself and raise fresh capital. The beauty of that was that the parties didn't have to disclose their identities but the FSA eventually got involved and the racy financier Robert Bonnier (ex-Scoot etc.) got his knuckles rapped. The FSA are already having a look at the Directors' sharedealings in ULG just prior to the profit warning, so I wouldn't be surprised if they don't have something to say about this stakebuilding soon. Whilst holding CFD's does not count as a 'shareholding' for the purposes of triggering a bid, I think they would have a long hard look at it if Dawnay Day's interest (via various associates etc.) exceeded 30%.

Regards, Ian

[jeffian] 21/7/2005 17:35

There we go:

"Ultimate Leisure Group PLC
21 July 2005


Ultimate Leisure Group plc ('the Company')


21 July 2005


Holding in Company


The Company was notified today that as at 19 July 2005, Cantor Fitzgerald Europe
has an interest in and is the registered holder of 5,665,000 Ordinary shares of
10p each in Ultimate Leisure Group plc representing 22.9% of the current issued
share capital.


As part of their obligation under section 204 of the Companies Act they also
disclose that it has agreements with (i) Forwardissue Limited ('Forwardissue')
pursuant to which Forwardissue has a beneficial interest in 360,000 of the
Shares and (ii) Jeptpath Limited ('Jetpath') pursuant to which Jetpath Limited
('Jetpath') pursuant to which Jetpath has a beneficial interest in a further
360,000 of the Shares.


The address of both Forwardissue Limited and Jetpath Limited is 15 Grosvenor
Gardens, London, SW1W 0BD.



ENDS"

As previously disclosed, Jetpath and Forwardissue are associates of Dawnay Day.

Regards, Ian

[frizsand2] 21/7/2005 17:25

0800 - If there is the right time to bail out then you will be in the money casue it will get a lot worse or a lot better depends which way U wnat it to go. Seems Long. If so then once it moves its gonna go big,either way. For me Up is best. As for the two funds that reduced, cant see this as a problem, artemes was reducing anyway and Scot widows will find the going to hot for them.

Ian - Regus, cant say I was in this share so not as familiar as U on the news, what happened thats similar and was it all right?

Seems to me that although its risky with the Chairman and F.D selling, if it was not expected, and managed, as it clearly has been then as with the previous time that Director sold 100,000 in one day the stock would have crashed, becasue U all know if 600K, 500K then 150K & 100K was sold over a few days under normal circumstances the shares would likely have been suspended as the fallout would have been huge.

I know like me U seem set to ride it out. Seems the best thing if were still in. Perhaps at the next AGM there will be two extra seets for the only 2 small private investors left, perhaps we´ll swing it. ah ah. are U game 0800.

[jeffian] 21/7/2005 10:07

Yes, 0800, but which is it?! As you say, except for apparent stakebuilding, all the signs point towards the exit (which is what the Directors and most of the 'mainstream' institutions are doing). With Cantors now holding a massive 23% and others such as Bear Stearns, Dawnay Day and our Mr. Lyne having substantial stakes it looks as if something's going to pop, but which way?

Regards, Ian

(Edit: Looking back at the RNS of 3/6/05, it looks as if the Cantors holding may be connected to Guy Naggar's Dawnay Day Properties who at that time disclosed an interest over 11% via CFD's in addition to their directly held 3%. If it is, then DD's 'interest' may be approaching 27% but, of course, CFD's don't 'count' in triggering a bid if the beneficial interest in the underlying shares is not held and there is no agreement between the parties about delivering the shares on demand. This was a trick used by Robert Bonnier to support the Regus shareprice. Unless the FSA step in an require the participants to disclose what's going on, it's hard for anyone else to know.

[0800] 21/7/2005 09:43

One or two still in there, but waiting for the right time to bail out.Two of the funds have reduced in the last couple of days, which is not good to read.
With most of the board bailing out, two profit warnings, profits heading south, other late venue operators failing to sell their venue part of the business (Luminar and Spirit)...........be careful!
On the up side, change of major shareholders,possible consolidation play?

[frizsand2] 19/7/2005 15:13

Are you all on your Hols. Cantor now ups stake to 19.3 % in case you have missed it !!! Perhaps you have all bailed out. Hope not.
regards Ju

[frizsand2] 18/7/2005 10:24

Hi Jeffian - I have accessed C/Wire but they updated only to the 13th July. They are upto Rankin selling 500K then 600K but have not updated the other two sales as of 14/07 he finished up selling another 100K and 150K however the veiw from C/Wire is: hold on speculation but with caution, they had not been able to find out much more data re Lynne etc., this seems odd in light of the heavy activity.

As of friday TD Waterhouse / Reg news feed on ULG gives the stakeholding at approx: Cantor Fitz/ 17.3% last purchase friday, Bear Strearn 13.4% Artimus reduced to 3.1% NCB/Mr Lynne 5.86% Deuche BNK 4.09% and Dawney DAY PROPS & Dawney Property and associates have about 17.5% if the stats are right. Credit agricole have 7.2% Scot Widdows 5.1%. the only risk factor as I can see is Dawney Props and associates also have about 2.9M long CFD´s cannot see any sign of other bets but maybe I have missed them. Will keep close eye. Rankin now has 6.7% stake. Company closed for reporting period.
Odd that no other news feeds are commenting.
As for the Murphia ........... well thats always a possibility. It certainly wont be the "Little People" ´Regs Ju