|I agree with EJ. Patience, grasshopper... (Did anyone else used to watch that 70s show?). Mistakes have been made (the bank, the hyping up, misjudging the interest in analytics (not much at this stage)), but that's part and parcel of any innovative business. TUNG's competitors are loss-making, too (Basware, Coupa). This is one for the long haul.
Re Dollarz' frustration at the slow growth of the financing side, a recent article on SCF from Australia gives a few hints:
"It is typically the supplier education and on-boarding piece where the most pain is felt with these programs and the reason why these programs take time to scale. There is a lack of understanding by suppliers and this is not helped by poor explanation on the part of banks and 3rd party providers of this product. They struggle to overcome the Australian psyche of “if it appears too good to be true, it usually is”."
So it's not just TUNG's problem. As regards the share price, I guess the occasional large move higher (Jan-early Feb the most recent one) is made thanks to low conviction "investors" who are prone to jump in when they hear of some positive news or notice the beginning of the trend and who are then being shaken out of their holdings when they start losing money (the market makers know that).|
|To even the argument out a tad and inject a bit of positive energy it is worth pointing out that the market cap is tiny so it would not take much good news / figures to really make a significant difference to the upside, we live in hope...|
|Investing is a waiting game. FWIW, in 2016 I had a very good result when I sold my holdings in IGE and PROX. The former had been held for 11 years and at every opportunity I added to my initial holding. I banked at 270% profit eventually, but for many years I was out of the money. PROX was similar with a 70% rise.
Conversely, I had a disastrous time with TRK (among others).
I know it seems pretty flimsy and hackneyed to write in this way, but the decision to buy or sell remains with the investor. Sometimes there are better investment opportunities and, where you may wish to take advantage does not mean that you should not sell a holding that is badly performing. Of course, you should.
Selling losers early and running winners is a good habit. Difficult to do, of course. The advantages are, first to take the loss (CGT advantage there too) and add to the winners.... it is quite possible that the capital is returned and the original equity that had been disposed is accumulated at lower cost, second that you are disciplined in your strategy and in the long term (20 or more years) you preserve a greater part of your capital but have it working for you for longer in better choices and thirdly that you force yourself not to fall in love with an investment.
My worst choices have been with those shares which I (thought) I knew inside and out and could not see the downside.
Last, invest in the managers of the company and not the company itself. If there is either a beancounter or an engineer running a business, run a mile - they are great at counting beans or working with physics, but for the most part have very poor skill in generating money for a business.
Entrepreneurs usually exude fresh ideas but need to be controlled by rational thought - that is where the engineer and bean counter come to the forefront. They will harness the energy.
With Edmund and Daniel Truell, ideas flow readily from one but logic and strategy was with the other. Daniel remains on the board, Edmund is running with other ideas.|
|If prostitution is ' the oldest profession ' then money lending can't be far behind it on the list and yet it seems a virtual impossibility to the very well paid professionals in charge of this company ? It is a common theme ( moan ) of mine that we are told the demand is huge yet the lending is minute, I'm not a clever PHD holding director of a Einvoicing company but even I can figure out that that fact has to be the fault of the PHD holding directors of this Einvoicing company . ITS QUITE SIMPLY NOT BLOODY GOOD ENOUGH!All is not well here and the way us pi's have been treated since this thing floated is a disgrace in my opinion , the only interaction I had ever had with tungsten before I had heard of this mob was throwing darts at a board - I wish I'd never left the oche to call my stockbroker !|
|Shoulda, woulda, coulda.
|There's not much (nothing) to cheer at the moment.
The talking here has stopped already, no? There's nothing coming out of the company outside of a seemingly increased amount of industry PR and social media activity.
We've not had any fundamental updates or tangible development RNS's.
The coming quarters though and it will all come out as the company is forced to report. I will snap my Tungsten pen in two if I'm told "this is the year of execution" for the third year straight.
Personally, I'm starting to view my position as a tax loss. To date it's been an absolute disaster and I can't see anything, anecdotally, fundamentally or otherwise that makes me think things are on a decent rebound.
Rick appointment. Prabhat 100 day plan. Sacking off Insight. Year(s) of execution phasing. Strategy all seemingly adding up to zip. Still the market values Tungsten far less than the sum paid for its parts! Should have returned cash at IPO!
I do believe however that if the City hadn't gang raped Edi back in 2015 then things might well have been different. The initial "growth by acquisition" strategy would have generated strong newslow, established NAV, and better driven the share price imo.
Shoulda, woulda, coulda.|
|This co. needs to concentrate on its existing strengths, if there are any, expanding into new territories like India at this stage is ridiculous, so far there is no evidence to suggest that Horowitz has turned things around, it'll be another cash call soon, they burn cash paying their salaries and expenses, and shareholders get screwed, I just don't see the point of a junior market, private cos perform better, the talking here has to stop, they have cash now but for how long! Directors are no better than thieves, it's several years now that this co has had, from over four quid to nothing at this rate!|
|Well if we are about to become India's 'go to' einvoice provider would somebody kindly inform the stock market ?? -4% today .|
|:) yes I was only talking about India. I'm not sure whether tung can gain from it. I was just happy that tung is doing something in India. About tung's revenue - I'm as clueless as anybody else here. I just hope ;)|
|"Game changing" for India yes BUT is it / could it be a gamechanger for Tungsten ?? Rick Hurwitz also says at the end of his statement " We will continue to expand where we operate in order to fulfil this charge. Watch this space. " Very interesting BUT will this be a costly exercise and therefore push back the 'EBITDA +ve' date ? And when oh when is all this groundwork going to pay off with juicy revenues ??|
|Thx for the article - pkarnezis
"The introduction of the Goods and Services Tax regulations (GST) in India, expected later in 2017, will help to provide a consistent set of tax rules and open up the possibilities of e-invoicing to businesses in the country."
This is a massive change- about to happen around June 2017. You can imagine doing business in India now which consists of 29 states where each state has own tax rules for indirect taxes. Moving goods or providing services inter-state is a nightmare. Country wide GST will be a game changing reform for the Indian economy by creating a common Indian market. It's almost similar to free trade across 29 countries
And Good to hear that Tungsten is already there ;)|
|The header needs updating, this co. has performed exactly the opposite to that infernal, the company has shareholders a packet, and it looks like that will continue, a complete and utter dog this has been!|
|This is good news:
First come, first served...|
|Coup is down 11% after first result (since IPO). it looks like same stage as Tung was after IPO with lot of RNS's and losing money.
At $23.80 price=> market cap - $1.2b
fiscal 2016 - revenue $83m, Net loss - $46m
fiscal 2017 - revenue $133m, Net loss - $37m, cash (31st jan 2017) - $201m
Guidance for Full year fiscal 2018:
•Total revenues are expected to be between $167 and $170 million.
•Non-GAAP loss from operations is expected to be between $27 and $30 million.
Revenue has increased by 40% in fiscal 2017 but expenses has gone up as well. Spending a lot on sales and marketing. I suppose they got cash for 4-5 years to turn into profit.
I had made small profits twice on COUP short ;).|
|BS76 ... Thanks|
|I did see Coupa's press release. Caterpillar is still using Ariba for supplier invoicing in US and Tungsten in UK/Poland. Coupa is involved in spend management and it's not replacing tungsten and I was not able to able to figure out which region coupa will be engaged.
I saw the above info on one of the caterpillar's site. I will find that link and post later.|
|They should be telling us info like this ? One way street . I have been in from the very early days for my pains ( and there have been plenty of those ) and I'm long but I have to admit I am slowly losing my previously unshakeable faith here.|
|Back in June 2014 TUNG had signed up Caterpillar for invoicing to its suppliers across the UK and Poland (Http://www.investegate.co.uk/tungsten-corp-plc--tung-/rns/tungsten-selected-by-caterpillar-for-e-invoicing/201406240930023293K/), but I notice that last month Caterpillar chose Coupa's "Procure-to-Pay (P2P) solution, which includes global invoice compliance": Http://www.coupa.com/newsworthy/press-releases/caterpillar-selects-coupa-procure-to-pay/
It sounds like TUNG lost a valuable customer perhaps? It's definitely getting to be very cut-throat out there... How does one compete with a large, rich company like Coupa?|
|Shame it doesn't reflect in the share price but then nothing (positive) does ? Should we be EBITDA +ve yet ???|
|Euroclear lending report for feb out
Feb-17 3401653.85 123456058.1 2.76
Jan-17 4700961.36 123333916.2 3.81
Dec-14 6268143.42 100483434 6.24
Nov-14 3686883.3 100503741.1 3.67
Oct-14 4534569.43 99518127.47 4.56
Sep-14 3724597.31 98321185.77 3.79
Aug-14 3485299.33 96471023.85 3.61
Jun-14 3527631.52 96429167.42 3.66
Jan-14 3048438.5 95355672.25 3.20
lowest % ever - even lower than first time it appeared in Jan 14 on stock lending report|
|Hope this turns out a better natured referendum than the last one :o)|
|Us plebs can vote up (green) though cannot vote down. Lets give it a day or two for anyone else to vote if they wish by ticking on my or your reply. If you tick higher than my post the charts stay as is, if not, we go back 8)|
|Prefer them as they are, personally - but I can't vote because I'm only a pleb...|
|I can put them back if you prefer? I only took them down because the ADVFN feeds broke for a few days -so the graphs didn't populate. ADVFN have fixed that issue. Tick this up and I'll take that as the green light to revert.|
|Shame the graphs got changed.
I do not know if anyone else noticed, but the rsi one was/is sort of tradeable.|