|As promised - here is the report I got from the liquidator. Hardly riveting but hopefully of some interest to some of you.
Some pages are blank btw because part of the document was printed double sided and part was not.|
|I'd written it off too as I'm sure has everyone. I was amazed however to see that the relaunched Selftrade (under the ownership of Equinity) have reinstated the value of my holding in my dealing account, much to my annoyance. It had been sitting at nil value for well nigh a year or so in the old (infinitely better) version of Selftrade....|
|Not sure that anyone did bookbroker - I certainly wrote off my small investment. Still always interesting to know and I did unexpected get a hundred quid or so back on a failed investment a couple of years after the event (amounting to few pennies in the pound) so you never know for sure.|
|This co. was declared of negligable value this time last year, shareholders were not going to receive anything the moment it went into receivership, this must refer to the creditors of the co., the liquidators being the appointed persons to try and recover any value from the assets, if any, to pay back any remaining creditors, shareholders have zero to do with this process, their day went awry the co. Was suspende, surprised anyone held out any hope!|
|As I was actually on the share register I received a note directly from the Liquidator at BDO.
If I get a chance over the next few days I'll post a copy of it.
In short though the important gist of it - if I read correctly - was shareholders will get nothing. Much as expected I'm afraid.|
|got the following from Selftrade on 10 Feb - not sure if it means much that wasn't already known.
The Company has announced that it is now in Creditors Voluntary Liquidation with effect from 22 January 2015. David Harry
Gilbert and Antony David Nygate, of BDO LLP, were appointed Joint Liquidators.
Further information may follow in due course.|
|Bearing in mind it was HMRC who pulled the plug (again) it would be difficult for them to reject any claims :-//|
If you look at that list
You should see that it's just LSE fully listed stocks. Stocks on AIM do not count as "listed" for tax purposes and hence shouldn't appear on that list, if there are any there then it's a mistake.
"We don't have to all apply with evidence individually do we?"
Annoying as it is, yes!|
|kazoom, you can use the loss in a future tax year (up to 3 I think) but if you have any gains in this year, the loss on SID will be used to offset them before your annual allowance is brought into play.|
|I rang the valuations officer on the number Alter Ego presented here, SID was declared as a negligent value asset on the dates he stated, and as far as they are concerned, it is now registered as a declarable asset of no value so can be used going forward for this tax year, if you apply the CG34 with regard to this co. two months prior to filling out your tax return for Year 13/14 the losses will be recognised by HMRC, if you simply file the return without the the CG34 it will still be recognised pending an enquiry, but as it is on the register from around the 02/01/14 the enquiry will result in that information being present from those dates, thus mitigating any further discrepancy and the HMRC will accept SID as a tax loss, off course there is nothing to stop you recording the loss and just carrying forward to cover against future taxable gains in further years should you wish! If you are still uncertain telephone the number he placed on his post, they are more than helpful, and will confirm what he stated and what I have since learnt.|
|Thanks Jak for your 2274, very helpful as ever. Can I just check a couple of points though :
Surely the fact that HMRC have recognised Alterego's claim now makes a precedent and Silverdell will eventually make it on the negligible value list? hTTP:www.hmrc.gov.uk/cgt/negvalist.htm We don't have to all apply with evidence individually do we?
I am I correct in my original assertion that I can choose the tax year in which I recognise this loss? It's not now locked into being a 13/14 loss is it? The HMRC site says : A claim can be made by making an entry on your tax return or by letter. My choice would be to make that claim on my return for the 14/15 tax year and it would be a little late to be told after the event that they wouldn't allow it in that year as it happened earlier.
Grateful for any clarifications.|
|Reading the admins report, it seems that EDS killed SID with revenues and losses being much lower and higher than purported.
Didn't the EDS boss cash in a shed load of shares and make a fortune by selling what appears to be a lemon to SID...??
Yes and no. What you describe is their policy to main market listed stocks. That policy doesn't extend to AIM stocks.
|I'm slightly confused by all of the comments about negligible value status, so wonder if someone can clarify.
I thought that generally HMRC declared a stock to be negligible value across the board rather than responding to individual requests,but once they had done so I thought it was up to individual investors to decide when they crystallise that loss [ie offset it against gains]. Have I got that wrong?|
|you're very welcome|
|Alter Ego - have spoken to said party on the number you stated, many thanks for your considerable assistance as the individual I spoke to was extremely helpful and agreed exactly as you said, dates and the like, what would we do without bulletin boards and helpful people like yourself, big issue has been resolved to the unfortunate SID affair, as you said it is on the register and would be accepted as a N.V.A, many thanks again!|
This is an extract of the recent reply I got from the administrators:
"Based upon current information, it is the Joint Administrators' expectation that the Company will be dissolved following the conclusion of its Administration. Albeit the Company may enter Liquidation for a short period to allow any distribution to the unsecured creditors of the business to be made.
The Joint Administrators anticipate that there will be a substantial shortfall to the creditors of the Company. As such, the Joint Administrators do not anticipate there being any funds available to return to the shareholders.
Please be advised that the Company should be struck off the Register of Companies three months after it moves to dissolution. As noted above, the Company may move to dissolution straight after the conclusion of its Administration, or following a period in Liquidation.
The Joint Administrators are not able to advise you on when your loss arises for tax purposes. The Joint Administrators recommend that HM Revenue & Customs, or a financial adviser, are consulted on this point."|
|I wrote to the Self Assessment Office, Cardiff on the 10.02.14., I spoke to them this week, they have responded, letter in post as speak, but I am led to believe they have not accepted my request to have it declared as a negligible asset, I'll decide when I get the letter and speak to a technical officer, I supplied every bit of info with a covering letter with points explaining each and every fact.|
|bookbroker, yes, I went down the formal route and sent off a form CG34 on 7/1/14 asking HMRC to value my holding. They asked for evidence to support my assertion that the shares were worthless which I supplied. The case was then passed to the Shares and Assets Valuation Office and I got a letter on 21 March saying
"I can confirm Shares and Asset Valuation office have confirmed your shares in Silverdell were of negligible value at 2 January 2014"
I'm unclear whether you can ask them to value at a different date but it might be possible. It rather depends on whether you want to claim the loss in this tax year or the next one. In my case, I needed to claim it this year to offset gains elsewhere.
The postal address for initial enquiries would appear to be
Individual and Public Bodies S0927, PO Box 3900 Glasgow, G70 6AA
Phone no is 03000 522724|
|Alter Ego- can you tell me which office or officer from HMRC contacted you about the claim for a loss as regards CGT., spoke to HMRC and they said they cannot confirm the status as regards to being able to make a claim i.e. currently not eligible, having sent all the paperwork concerning the dismantling of this co. and its subsequent sale of the parts, and the likelihood of shareholders receiving no recompense/value to their holdings.|
|Thanks alterego, as much as it's possible that's relatively good news.|
|I have been told by the administrators that shareholders will get nothing. Ialso have had written confirmation from HMRC that SID shares are of negligible value and can be claimed as a loss for CGT purposes.|
|Rec'd this message from Selftrade today -does it mean anything re tax loss situation?:
Terms: ADMINISTRATION The Company has announced the appointment of David Harry Gilbert and Antony
David Nygate, of BDO LLP, as Joint Administrators of the Company on 28 January 2014. In accordance with the
Insolvency Act 1986, the Joint Administrators will seek to realise the Companys assets, distribute funds to
creditors and seek exit from Administration by way of a Creditors Voluntary Liquidation or Dissolution. Further
information may follow in due course.|
|From the 10th. January 2014 "Investors Chronicle" (extracts only) -
"Silverdell bows out
After losing the support of its banker, Silverdell has been bought by turnaround specialist Rcapital partners
... Silverdell issued an update on New Year's Eve admitting that trading conditions in the group's subsidiaries had been extremely challenging, reflecting the impact of one of the group's operating arms, Kitsons, entering administration. This, in turn, led to a serious deterioration in the group's working capital position. ...
The IC first tipped shares in Silverdell on 6 January 2011, at 7.25p, and over the next two years the share price more than doubled. We renewed that advice on 31 January 2013 at 17p, when the shares were still modestly rated with an earnings multiple of eight. Gearing at that time was 29 per cent, and there was nothing to indicate that the group's business model would not continue to drive better returns. Then came the resignation of the finance director, following serious accounting issues, but it was the decision of HSBC not to support the group that finally precipitated its downfall."|
|I'm waiting to hear from HMRC in response to a request for a valuation. Will post when I hear.|