M&G Equity Share Discussion Threads

[lizzie ii] 04/3/2011 12:35

And the definite result is .... Capital shareholders get 0p!

OK I made a loss, but I sold out about 4 or 5 weeks ago at 0.4p. Something was better than nothing.

Details in :-

[mangal] 22/2/2011 19:12

Robizm, yes I agree the caps will most likely be wiped out.

Did you notice that incs' NAV was 0.1p yesterday but 0p today?
Is this because the zeros' liabililty of yesterday was fully covered & the residue was assigned to the incs?
I too have been investing in splits for years but still can't understand why there is such a big difference (£2m) between the two published NAVs.

[robizm] 22/2/2011 18:34

it is income and costs etc but 2 million seems high. these caps need a miricale to be honest

[mangal] 21/2/2011 17:48

NAV keeps creeping up despite the markets falling! Interesting to see that they have included the portfolio breakdown in the NAV announcement today. With only two weeks to go, the u/l is still 65% in equities. At least that gives the portfolio a chance to perform should the markets rise.

Robizm, since you are an expert on splits you may be able throw some light on why there is a difference between the two NAVs published daily.

eg Today's NAV is £171.5m and the NAV of zeros is 98.25p(£169.43m).
So, how does one account for the difference of £2m? Surely, that can't all be management expenses? Is there still a loan outstanding?

[robizm] 18/2/2011 20:50

I have been investing in splits for years and trust me the current nav is 98.15p which is why capital shares are currently worthless. read the rules and you will know i am right

[mangal] 18/2/2011 08:34

The current NAV of zeros is NOT relevant; it is only their final liability, 172.45m, that is relevant when working out how much growth is needed.
c post 142.

[robizm] 18/2/2011 07:32

of course nav of zeros is relevant as stated in my post they sill need more growth

[mangal] 17/2/2011 23:09

The zeros' NAV of 98.19p is irrelevant, I think, as that is based on their value "From 31.00 GBp on 08 Mar 1996 increasing at 8.19% p.a., 12 times p.a. to 100.00 GBp on 08 Mar 2011". The relevant figure for current assets is the "net asset value at 12:00 noon today", ie £171.4m.

Apprx required rise in Footsie = 0.82% of 6087 = ~50 points

If the current market trend continues then the ~50 points rise might just be possible but for the caps that might not be enough as the u/l assets need to be fully invested, which I don't think they are.

[robizm] 17/2/2011 22:55

todaysp rns say zeros nav is 98.19p so they still need 1.8p x 172.5 million = £3 million to break even and another 1.725 million for caps to be worth 1p. you are missing out fund manager costs etc so more than 1.4 mill is needed. we need 100 points on the footsie imho to make it, i hope they do but i dont think it will happen.

[mangal] 17/2/2011 22:47

Assets assuming all revenue_reserves have been paid out = £171.4m

liabilities:
Zeros = £172.45m
Incs = £0.172m
wind_up_costs = £0.2m say
Total liabilties = £172.8

deficit now= 171.4 - 172.8 = £1.4m
% rise to clear the deficit= 1.4/171.4 * 100 = 0.82%

Can the assets rise £1.4m(0.8%) within the next couple of weeks?

[robizm] 17/2/2011 19:51

Nav of zeros (yesterday) was 97.5 approx. multiply 172,500,000 = 4.25 million approx and need another 1.72 million for caps to be worth 1p

[mangal] 17/2/2011 14:01

RIBIZM, how did u get the figure of £5m?

[robizm] 17/2/2011 13:45

this still needs £5 million increse in assets for the capital shares to be worth anything though

[mangal] 17/2/2011 11:19

So the revenue_reserve(0.46p) will be paid out soon(ex-date today).

[mangal] 15/2/2011 11:23

Well, nothing wrong with punting as long as u don't mind getting soaked occasionally.

[zutalors] 15/2/2011 10:54

Whoever bought in this morning must think we both have.

[mangal] 14/2/2011 21:17

c post 132. have I missed anything?

[zutalors] 14/2/2011 19:17

I get :

Assets 170.8 million
Liabilities 172

Reveune Reserve -1.2

Show me what I've missed

[mangal] 14/2/2011 18:41

Assets = £171.3 - 0.8 = 170.5m
%rise required ~1.1%

[mangal] 13/2/2011 19:54

Is revenue_reserve = 0.47p * 172,000,000 = £0.8m ?

So, assets = 170.8 - 0.8 = £170m

liabilities:
Zeros = £172m
Incs = £0.172m
wind_up_costs = £0.2m say
Total liabilties = £172.4

So % rise required = 172.4/170-1 * 100 = ~1.4%

Is that possible within 2-3 weeks if most of the portfolio has been liquidated?

[lizzie ii] 13/2/2011 16:18

Isn't the answer to that in the latest daily RNS? As per :-

[mangal] 12/2/2011 16:53

NAv down by £1m yesterday; probably the div payment. Wonder how much revenue reserve is left now.

[mangal] 09/2/2011 20:04

NAV keeps creeping up; now £171.8m
For caps to finish positive, assets need to rise by:
£0.37m + revenue_reserve + wind_up_costs

[mangal] 09/2/2011 08:41

OK, point taken. does anyone know what the current revenue reserves are?