Kenmore Euro Share Discussion Threads

[crawford] 16/11/2009 17:16

Small disposal.

[crawford] 13/11/2009 11:52

European GDP growth continuing:

[nickcduk] 13/11/2009 11:40

A steadying of the ship this morning. Next weeks trading statement should move the shares up sharply. NAV may fall slightly but that still leaves the shares on a huge discount.

[ianbrewster] 13/11/2009 11:32

From CityWire

Kenmore Property collapse leaves Lloyds exposed

By Gavin Lumsden | 09:13:47 | 13 November 2009

Kenmore Property Group, the Edinburgh-based developer, has collapsed owing Lloyds bank £700 million in debts and investments, according to The Times.

Accountants Grant Thornton told the Daily Telegraph that Kenmore had placed 21 of its companies into administration and a further two into receivership.

Kenmore, which has £1.8 billion assets under management, was founded by John Kennedy, one of Scotland's wealthiest men according to the Sunday Times Rich List last year.

The group managed an investment trust, Kemore European Industrial. The trust has not been placed into administration, although it is separately known to be at risk of breaching its covenants. The board of the trust said it is keeping the situation under review.

The Times says that Peter Cummings, former commercial loans chief at Lloyds, was said to have been close to Kennedy, which was hurt by the collapse of Lehman Brothers. According to the paper, one of Cummings's last moves at the bank was to approve a payment of £67 million to keep Kenmore afloat. It says the bank continued that emergency funding yesterday in a bid to avoid a firesale of assets.

Rob Caven, partner at Grant Thornton's recovery and reorganisation practice, told the Telegraph: 'While there will undoubtedly be some uncertainty at this time our plans for the continued trading of the group should avoid any immediate disruption to the funds that are owned or managed by the group. Our immediate objective is business as usual.'

[lbo] 13/11/2009 11:21

Lloyds Banking Group was chasing debts and investments of more than £700 million last night after the collapse of a property developer that it has been bankrolling.

Administrators at Grant Thornton were appointed to salvage what they could of Kenmore Property Group, a £1.8 billion collection of funds and companies in which John Kennedy, once said to be one of Scotland's wealthiest men, is the main shareholder. Debts owed by Kenmore are part of the estimated £70 billion commercial

[crawford] 13/11/2009 08:51

kramch,
yes, that smacks of incompetence....

[kramch] 13/11/2009 08:49

Crawford - I hope they're a bit more careful than TRV, who managed to trigger a, so far unquantified, tax liability when they parted from DD! K.

[crawford] 13/11/2009 08:41

If I can recollect what TRV did last year, Keif will buy in some of the management and cut costs by managing inhouse.

[alanji] 12/11/2009 17:46

From Property Week:-

Rob Caven, partner at Grant Thornton, said: "We are continuing to trade the business.

"While the insolvency of part of the Kenmore Group will create uncertainty for a number of parties we will ensure that we liaise with all affected parties in order to minimise disruption to the funds that are owned and managed by the group."

[cmpf] 12/11/2009 17:34

thepsychic - fair call - respect your decision. Makes a nice change for someone to post a considered response rather than some of the muppets you get posting "this is a dog - flog it"

I agree that exact calculations of rental yields and net profits seemed to be a little confusing. I think that some of the reporting in sterling when all the properties are euro denominated confuse the issue. And also you need to delve into a lot of detail for lease/rent renewals, etc, which muddies the picture.

I consider that the underlying fundamentals of this business are sound. Properties owned are good solid investment, rental returns and occupancy levels slightly above sector average. Reasonable average left on most lease terms. And European commercial property sector probably just starting to recover.

GL with your other investments.

[kramch] 12/11/2009 17:23

Are there any inter-company loans outstanding? As long as they are small, no problem. This is an opportunity for KEIF to make management savings - a vexing topic on these boards! K

[thepsychic] 12/11/2009 17:19

cmpf there are too many uncertainties for my liking. I am not sure how this situation will develop. I still cannot calculate the net profits. I am also ONLY assuming that the NAV will rise. From my point of view I would rather be out.

To the more informed investor KEIF can look different to how i see it and thus see it as a viable investment. I am too distant from the goings on of this company which to me do not appear transparrent enough therefore quite frankly i never felt truly comfortable owning these stocks. I'll take it as a lesson to be a more informed investor as opposed to spontaniously going for it based alsmost soley on a feeling the european property market has bottomed.

I may be wrong in my decision to sell, but i do not know if i could be right to hold therefore i sell. Good luck to all that hold.

[sommet2] 12/11/2009 17:11

ydderF,
The assets of KEIF are owned by KEIF.The Regulator in Guernsey would not allow it to be otherwise.There has to be a clear separation of functions and assets.Obviously this is going to cause disruption and uncertainity until a new investment manager is appointed.This is what I believe the directors are saying.Perhaps they are too close to the situation and could have worded the RNS differently but i doubt for a second they thought anybody might think that the assets were owned by the manager.Look at this another way.Nick mentioned above that it was known that Kenmore were in trouble.Does anybody really believe that the directors of KEIF did not know this.At the very least they would have ensured their rear ends were covered to avoid possible action against them.

[ydderf] 12/11/2009 17:10

cmpf, crawford, you may well be right.....but why risk it? I can't see the point. I agree that probably all will be ok, but the fact is, something completely unexpected has happened and there is now uncertainty where there wasn't before. Anything could happen now, - the directors not being able to reassure is a shocker!

[cmpf] 12/11/2009 16:52

crawford,
in all honesty if the co. don't want to dispose of any more assets or purchase anymore, keep a fund manager out of the picture for 6 months and save a couple of mill

[crawford] 12/11/2009 16:50

PS, obvious that insider trading happened today before the announcement.

[crawford] 12/11/2009 16:48

nick/cmpf,
I agree; if anything, this could result in an opportunity for the company to manage their assets at decreased costs.

A similar think happened Dawney Day.

[cmpf] 12/11/2009 16:48

BTW thepsychic - 2 points:
1. the board are required to update the shareholders, so the bit you say you don't like is kinda a given.
and 2. did you not see this coming!!!

[ydderf] 12/11/2009 16:47

Kimboy2 hit the nail on the head, the fact that the directors can't say unequivocally that the situation is watertight screams sell

[cmpf] 12/11/2009 16:45

I agree with your nick. The assets have not changed, the rents have not changed. The board could just have easily decided to change the investment manager if they did not think Kenmore were performing well enough. Maybe they can bring in a new manager that takes less of a management fee so the profits rise.
Let's hope the share price drops and then buy some more.

[nickcduk] 12/11/2009 16:25

Kenmore going under is no surprise. It has been doing the rounds for a while now. Don't think there is too much to worry about. Issues at hand are probably focused on whether they retain Kenmore to manage the fund or bring in another investment manager. Im taking this as a buying opportunity and picking up stock.

[kimboy2] 12/11/2009 16:25

You would think that the Directors would know if the properties are owned by the company or the fund manager.

What exactly do the Directors do here.

[thepsychic] 12/11/2009 16:12

I sold out due to uncertainty I did not like this bit
"The Board, with its advisers, will keep the situation under careful review and update shareholders as appropriate..."

It could be that there is nothing to worry about, but i would rather stay out of this with an insignificant loss.

[alanji] 12/11/2009 16:12

Yes, they could have worded it a lot better - buying opportunity, perhaps?

[madmix] 12/11/2009 16:03

This afternoon's news is probably nothing to worry about, but the words they have used is bound to cause some uncertainty :

"...following its initial discussions with the Investment Manager, the Board of KEIF is reassured that the ownership of the Fund's assets is unaffected.

The Board, with its advisers, will keep the situation under careful review and update shareholders as appropriate..."

Hopefully there will be more certainty by next Thursday's results.