Angel Mining Share Discussion Threads

[layer cake] 17/3/2013 12:19

Jaf. You have the right to change your mind as often as you wish about this guy but the fact is it just does not add up. If we allow this negative culture to continue, it is not only the investor that loses, it is the whole nation since the money taken from us never sees these shores.
The market relies on numbers and short memories and plays on two human characteristics: greed and weakness.
There are good companies out there, the best one for me was and still is GKP. I placed a grand in there when it was at 2 pence and sold at £ 3.80.
The CEO never lied and the only worry was Iraq.

With gold predictions, the pr stunt on the BBC and the positive RNS being churned out it was easy to see why so many got involved, the difference however especially with the last few RNS, you just know that this piece of garbage was lying.
WE STILL DON'T KNOW WHY WE HAVE GONE INTO ADMINISTRATION.

[jaf1948] 16/3/2013 20:33

layer cake,

I admit I was wrong about Nick but I still don't think he deliberately misled us. I will accept that he has probably been naive and less astute than I had hoped, and alas I have to put myself in the same category. I honestly believed that the risk / reward balance was in our favour and I got it wrong. Hence, it is not dignity on my part, just acceptance that I made a mistake for which I can only blame myself.

[layer cake] 16/3/2013 20:13

Incompetence.
Am following the BP trial.
Here is an example of incompetence; let's see what happens to this guy:
Joseph Keith, a mud logger for Halliburton's Sperry Sun unit, testified Wednesday that he took a brief smoke break and missed a "kick" of natural gas an hour before the blowout of the well on April 20, 2010.

Though Keith testified during direct examination that he believed he did nothing wrong, he acknowledged taking little action when he returned. After observing a 100 pounds per square inch pressure increase in the drillpipe in the well, Keith testified he did not view it as an indication of a kick, and did not notify workers on the rig's drilling floor of the change.

Geoffrey Webster, a marine safety expert, testified in the later part of the week that rig owner Transocean and its crew violated international and federal marine safety standards in failing to maintain the rig, concluding that the crew was incompetent and the vessel was unseaworthy. He testified that the drilling rig's maintenance records "clearly show that it was in deplorable condition."

LeCesne said Webster's testimony was "somewhat effective, but I expect that to be challenged strongly by Transocean's own expert."

[layer cake] 16/3/2013 19:28

Exploring all avenues. Sooner or later one of us will come up with something.
P.S. you are a very brave man for taking the enormous cash loss you have incurred with such dignity.
That is a yacht for Christ sake.
Place angel mining on you tube and scroll down to interview with Nick.
Had I seen that interview I would not be here today.

[jaf1948] 16/3/2013 16:50

Layer cake,

If you read through the RNSs, you will find enough weasel words that would make it very difficult to prove fraud against any good lawyer. At best you might be able to prove incompetence but alas that is not a criminal offence.

And if by some remote chance, fraud could be proved and damages awarded, where is the money going to come from to pay the award ? Yes, we're all hurting but get real.

[layer cake] 16/3/2013 13:59

Bankruptcy Law: Understanding Fraudulent Conveyances

Introduction

In bankruptcy proceedings, a trustee is chosen to administer the debtor's estate in a fair and orderly manner. Generally speaking, for bankruptcy purposes, the estate is comprised of those assets of the debtors in which the debtor's creditors have an interest. The trustee is given the power to set aside or "avoid" certain transfers of the debtor's assets out of the estate that unfairly place assets beyond the creditor's reach. Such a transfer of the debtor's assets to a third party, with the intent to prevent creditors from reaching the assets to satisfy their claims, is called a "fraudulent conveyance".

Understanding Fraudulent Conveyances

There are two types of fraudulent transfers in bankruptcy law. The first, actual fraud, involves the intent to defraud creditors, the other, sometimes called constructive fraud, involves a transfer, which is made in exchange for grossly inadequate consideration.

Actual fraud is committed when 1) a transfer is made within one year before the date of the filing of a bankruptcy petition and 2) is made with the intent to hinder or defraud a creditor. Actual fraud requires proof of intent from the person challenging the transfer. Of course, a debtor intending to defraud his creditors will not be overt about his intentions to do so. Therefore, courts have set forth circumstances, the existence of which indicate the intent to defraud. Some examples of these circumstances are actual or threatened litigation against the debtor, a retention of possession or control of the property, transfer of substantially all the debtor's assets, transfer to a newly created corporation, and a special relationship with the person to whom the property is transferred. These are only factors to be considered in determining whether a person intended to defraud a creditor, and whether they do in fact prove the debtor's fraudulent intent is to be determined on a case by case basis.

Constructive fraud also requires two conditions: 1) in exchange for the transfer, the debtor received less than "reasonably equivalent value", and; 2) the debtor is unable to pay debts either at the time the transfer was made or as a result of the transfer itself. In this case, intent need not be proven rather the focus of the inquiry rests on whether the debtor received reasonably equivalent value. Of course, reasonably equivalent value can be in the eye of the beholder. When there is nothing of value exchanged for the transfer of the debtor's property, the answer is an easy one. Not infrequently, however, something of value is given and the question becomes whether the value was really adequate compensation for the property.

When is a bargain just a bargain and not a fraudulent transfer?Although the trustee of the estate must prove that reasonably equivalent value has not been given, there is no formula for determining reasonably equivalent value. Courts will look at all the circumstances surrounding a transaction to determine whether the exchange looks even. Some of the factors courts have considered in making a determination are whether the sale was for fair market value, whether the transaction was made in good faith in the ordinary course of business by parties of independent interests, the competitiveness of bids for the property, and the net effect on the debtor's estate with respect to funds available to unsecured creditors. Generally, for an exchange to be considered legitimate, value does not have to be received directly by the debtor, but may exist in the form of additional business opportunities made available through new lines of credit or new affiliations created by the transfer. However, transfers made solely for the benefit of third parties are not reasonably equivalent value. Value as determined by foreclosure sales is generally not questioned unless the foreclosure was collusive or otherwise in violation of state procedural law.

The timing of the transfer is important in determining whether the transfer will stand or not. Only those transfers completed or "perfected" within a year of the filing of the petition for bankruptcy may be reversed. The transfer of certain types of property requires more than one step to complete the transaction. In the case of real estate, for example, the transfer is not complete until a deed is officially recorded.

Once a transfer has been deemed fraudulent, the trustee may recover the property, or the value of the property, and make it part of the bankruptcy estate. They may do so from either the immediate recipient or from anyone else to whom the property was subsequently transferred. One exception to this general rule, however, is the case of the "bona fide purchaser". The bona fide purchaser is one who acted in good faith to purchase the property without notice of the outstanding rights of others to the property. The bona fide purchaser may retain the property. Another exception is made in a case where valuable improvements to the property have been made. In this case, those that made the improvements to the property are given a lien on the property, securing the improvements they made. Finally, if the law places no other restrictions on the transfer, and the property was purchased for some value in good faith, in other words, with no knowledge of the fraudulent intent, the person receiving the transferred property may be allowed to retain the property or regain the value they paid for it in the settling of the estate.

Fraudulent transfers can have a negative effect on creditors with interests in the debtor's estate. Creditors who suspect the fraudulent transfer of property may be able to obtain a temporary restraining order and preliminary injunction to prevent the transfer before it occurs.

Conclusion

There are many opportunities for dispute when it comes to fraudulent conveyances. Options exist for the creditor who suspects that a fraudulent conveyance is in the making, for a bona fide purchaser whose property is the subject of a fraudulent transfer, or for a debtor defending a transfer of property. An experienced bankruptcy attorney will help you to evaluate the options available to you based on the facts in your particular case.

[crystalblue] 14/3/2013 11:51

Check out TYM.....Tertiary Minerals....3 bagger at least in short order.

I'm fully aboard, soon get those Angel losses back if you didn't get out in time.

[marky4] 08/3/2013 22:28

REPOST OF A POST FROM ANOTHER THREAD

Duntulum 31 May'10 - 21:44 - 164 of 543 0 0


Other possibilities that could be a concern are .......if the contractors took payment for all their work as stated in shares.Would those same contractors not now be of a mind to sell and get something for their efforts in case their shares become worthless.In which case there would be quite a lot of sells to go on the market.I mean it,s not beyond comprehension that they will be aware of the situation and worried about it.

Also what if Cyrus have been thinking ,"lets let ANGM get this mine to the production stage and let them get the cable car work done at BAM .Then just as gold is about to be produced we will call in our loans.Which will bust ANGM and leave us with a producing gold mine and a zinc/lead mine where infrastructure work has begun that we can sell.That way they get all their money back plus own a producing gold mine which they can either sell or get a management co in to run for them.That way they would make a far quicker return on their investment than they will by waiting for ANGM to pay them back.

[marky4] 08/3/2013 22:27

REPOST OF A POST FROM ANOTHER THREAD

Duntulum 31 May'10 - 21:44 - 164 of 543 0 0


Other possibilities that could be a concern are .......if the contractors took payment for all their work as stated in shares.Would those same contractors not now be of a mind to sell and get something for their efforts in case their shares become worthless.In which case there would be quite a lot of sells to go on the market.I mean it,s not beyond comprehension that they will be aware of the situation and worried about it.

Also what if Cyrus have been thinking ,"lets let ANGM get this mine to the production stage and let them get the cable car work done at BAM .Then just as gold is about to be produced we will call in our loans.Which will bust ANGM and leave us with a producing gold mine and a zinc/lead mine where infrastructure work has begun that we can sell.That way they get all their money back plus own a producing gold mine which they can either sell or get a management co in to run for them.That way they would make a far quicker return on their investment than they will by waiting for ANGM to pay them back.

[marky4] 08/3/2013 22:27

REPOST OF A POST FROM ANOTHER THREAD

Duntulum 31 May'10 - 21:44 - 164 of 543 0 0


Other possibilities that could be a concern are .......if the contractors took payment for all their work as stated in shares.Would those same contractors not now be of a mind to sell and get something for their efforts in case their shares become worthless.In which case there would be quite a lot of sells to go on the market.I mean it,s not beyond comprehension that they will be aware of the situation and worried about it.

Also what if Cyrus have been thinking ,"lets let ANGM get this mine to the production stage and let them get the cable car work done at BAM .Then just as gold is about to be produced we will call in our loans.Which will bust ANGM and leave us with a producing gold mine and a zinc/lead mine where infrastructure work has begun that we can sell.That way they get all their money back plus own a producing gold mine which they can either sell or get a management co in to run for them.That way they would make a far quicker return on their investment than they will by waiting for ANGM to pay them back.

[marky4] 08/3/2013 22:25

REPOST OF A PREVIOUS POST ON THIS THREAD

Duntulum 31 May'10 - 21:44 - 164 of 543 0 0


Other possibilities that could be a concern are .......if the contractors took payment for all their work as stated in shares.Would those same contractors not now be of a mind to sell and get something for their efforts in case their shares become worthless.In which case there would be quite a lot of sells to go on the market.I mean it,s not beyond comprehension that they will be aware of the situation and worried about it.

Also what if Cyrus have been thinking ,"lets let ANGM get this mine to the production stage and let them get the cable car work done at BAM .Then just as gold is about to be produced we will call in our loans.Which will bust ANGM and leave us with a producing gold mine and a zinc/lead mine where infrastructure work has begun that we can sell.That way they get all their money back plus own a producing gold mine which they can either sell or get a management co in to run for them.That way they would make a far quicker return on their investment than they will by waiting for ANGM to pay them back.

[12bn] 08/3/2013 08:01

Thanks Induna.

[induna123] 06/3/2013 22:10

I don't blame gb at all. You have to give him credit for bring able to change his stance after being a mega bull to bear, that took courage He knew people would criticise him. A lot of people can't do that, they stick rigidly to their stance no matter what. The hardest thing to do is sell, but selling at a 50% loss is better than losing 100%. At least you give yourself a chance to dig yourself out of the hole.

If you want to blame somebody then look at the posts by cube boss and crystal blue in December last year. Totally outrageous and sucked in a whole raft of mug punters.

[nazare2] 06/3/2013 19:56

12b is the reason brothers and sisters should not marry!!.

[bagemntagem] 06/3/2013 19:01

12bn...you are a hypocrite. You ramped this share like it was the best thing since sliced bread. A few months of de-ramping and you think your no longer to blame for people loosing thousands of £'s. Think about the people who pumped in thousands at a high share price due to your ramping

[12bn] 06/3/2013 14:22

Sorry but I must decline your kind offer.May I say that the only good thing to come out of this debacle is deserving folk like you have got your due. :)

[induna123] 05/3/2013 13:34

He's looking for somebody to blame. Although the shameless ramping by cube boss and crystal blue just prior to suspension was terrible behaviour. Go read those posts again. They will make you cringe.

[12bn] 05/3/2013 12:02

nazare2,if you lost money here then that is your fault and no-one elses,you pathetic creature.If you want someone to blame then look in the mirror and if you need someone else then blame NH who issued the over-optimistic RNSs.

[stuart143] 05/3/2013 11:53

Moneypenny has a meeting with NH on 20th get signed up and she will ask questions she is given

[52ron] 05/3/2013 09:36

where are the gold pours this year

[12bn] 05/3/2013 08:17

....or longer :)