Afferro Min Share Discussion Threads

[che7win] 21/12/2013 23:45

Cash In IWeb.

[shavian] 21/12/2013 18:28

Nothing in my Transact account either, and they are usually pretty sharp.

[nickdr99] 20/12/2013 18:07

Still nothing in Barclays (clearly useless) or in my SIPP (BI). Just as well I am not brave enough to want to plough it straight back in to the market like Cumbria!

[cumbrian2] 20/12/2013 16:36

Mine also back into H-L ISA account. Already reinvested (£67k) into top ups on QPP (25K) and GBO(22K) with the balance of 10k each into new positions in GAME and ARROW.

[michaelwhight] 20/12/2013 16:31

Nothing in from NatWest yet

[whum] 20/12/2013 15:49

cumbrian2 h-l have paid mine into sipp

[nav_mike] 20/12/2013 15:36

TDW saying they havent received the money into CREST holdings....find that bit hard to believe

[ridicule] 20/12/2013 15:30

My cash in Jarvis and AJ Bell accts. Loan notes not due until 31 December.Still no clarity on how/will they be listed and whether they are tradeable.

[exbroker] 20/12/2013 14:47

Cash and Loan notes at Charles Stanley.

[cumbrian2] 20/12/2013 14:45

Nothing from H-L yet

[darlocst] 20/12/2013 14:25

Selftrade have paid the 80p per share into my account this afternoon. Loan notes to follow they say.

[nickdr99] 20/12/2013 12:29

Have been in touch with barclays. Helpful but totally unclear! They dont expect to credit accounts before Christmas even though they have the pay date as 19th. They have no clue re the loan notes - when they will have them or if they can be held within an ISA.If others can share what their own brokers are saying/doing it would be helpful.

[albertedwin] 20/12/2013 12:14

speedsgh - I have been looking further into the relevant HMRC and other guidance available on the Web with regard to the personal taxation position and frankly the more I delve the more potentially complex the situation becomes. I have therefore firmly concluded that this aspect is indeed DEFINITELY A MATTER FOR THE PROFESSIONALS and so will neither delve nor comment further thereon. My personal observations hitherto made need therefore to be regarded with even more caution than previously ! And no funds received as yet.

[nav_mike] 20/12/2013 11:20

Anyone showing funds credited yet?

[albertedwin] 19/12/2013 15:53

speedsgh - I note your comments and would draw your attention to the amendment in capitals which I have made at the end of Paragraph 3 of my post 42083 to make clear that the total consideration should presumably include both the Cash Element and the officially nominated price of the Loan Notes upon issue. I am of course no expert in these matters and would very much welcome any comments your Accountant may have concerning my interpretation of pages 67 & 68 of the Arrangement Document. Best wishes.

[speedsgh] 19/12/2013 13:29

ALBERT - Thank you for your extensive reply. I am looking at this from a corporation tax viewpoint so any advice I receive may not necessarily be correct from a personal income tax perspective.

[albertedwin] 19/12/2013 12:52

speedsgh - with regard to our recent discussion concerning base values for CGT I have been looking again at the Arrangement Document dated August 15th 2013 and in particular pages 67 and 68 under the heading "CERTAIN UK TAX CONSIDERATIONS". The first paragraph on page 68 reads:

"The proceeds received by holders of Afferro Shares for the purposes of CGT will be the aggregate of the Cash Consideration AND THE MARKET VALUE OF THE CONVERTIBLE NOTES ON THE DATE WHEN THEY ARE ISSUED" (my capital letters for emphasis).

The following paragraph under the heading "Income Tax" goes on to deal with the situation where a profit is realized on disposal of a Loan Note and states that broadly the "profit" will be the amount by which the proceeds received on the disposal (or the value of any shares issued on conversion) exceed "THE MARKET VALUE OF THE CONVERTIBLE NOTE AT THE TIME IT WAS ISSUED LESS CERTAIN COSTS" (my capitals again).

This clearly seems to predicate that it is intended that an official valuation will be placed on the Loan Notes upon issue, and if this is so then it cannot simultaneously be intended that an apportioned part of the original base cost of the relevant Afferro shares should be taken as the base cost of the IMIC Convertible Loan Notes.

If this interpretation is correct then presumably it will also follow that for the purpose of assessing any capital gain/loss on the disposal of the Afferro shares the entire 100% of original base cost needs to be taken into account against the 80 pence cash consideration received (and not just 2/3rds of it as suggested by the alternative calculation favoured by your Accountant) PLUS THE OFFICIALLY NOMINATED ISSUE PRICE OF THE LOAN NOTES.

In this connection I recall that some previous consideration was given to this issue in November on this thread around post numbers 41797 to 41801 which you may find helpful for reference. Otherwise I have trawled through the Web and have been unable to locate any other items of relevance to this particular issue.

If the above interpretation of pages 67 & 68 is correct then presumably IMIC or the Irish Stock Exchange will have to issue an official valuation to constitute the appropriate base value acceptable to the relevant Tax Authorities.

I would very much welcome your, or anyone else's, views upon this important issue since it could well have a considerable bearing upon a shareholder's overall CGT liability for the current Tax Year and could indicate the need further investment decisions to be made prior to the year end to mitigate the adverse impact of any unforeseen additional liability.

I regret the length of the above but it would obviously be very beneficial to have your further comments prior to seeking appropriate professional advice and the topic is clearly likely to be universal interest among affected shareholders. All views are of course IMHO !

[stevie blunder] 19/12/2013 12:25

As this may be the last time I visit this board, I would like to thank Unionhall for setting it up and all the posters for providing such interesting debate and opinions. It has been lively at times, but polite as well. Thank you.

I originally bought Mano River in Nov 2003, and am exiting with a decent profit. Just not as much as I hoped to make, but no point in crying over spilled milk.

I expect the loan notes to be paid out in IMIC shares and to be able to sell them for not far short of the 46p as the dilution they will cause will not be massive.

All the best.

[deltrotter] 19/12/2013 11:49

Noirua, agreed.

An absolute gift horse here the last six months and I can only thank Luis and the BOD, and IMIC/GheeBee, for giving it to me.

Best of luck with the future guys.

Cheers

Del

[noirua] 19/12/2013 09:33

Excellent! Having bought at an average 71p for AFF I now have 40p of 8% si loan stock bought for minus 9p a share. Providing everything works out well that equates to about 70% (si) interest per annum.

The USA unemployment level is dropping and economy stimulus reduced. That points well for China buying all the iron ore from IMIC.

Once the loan stock is quoted I expect IMIC to gradually buy it back over the next two years.

[nav_mike] 19/12/2013 08:16

TDW seem to be pretty on the ball....AFF have disappeared from my portfolio today - lets hope they are just as quick putting the cash back :)

[nav_mike] 19/12/2013 08:12

I'll be very wary of any unexplained spikes or run ups in the IMIC share price, as you just know it will have been engineered to do a loan note conversion on stupid terms :S

I honestly dont think I will ever trust them long enough to actually hold shares in them...

[gheebee] 19/12/2013 07:45

zangdook

I share your pain, particularly on a day when another iron company has played a blinder by comparison. But don't blame "IMIC". That's just the vehicle to transfer value to the Board and shareholders of AIOG.

[che7win] 19/12/2013 07:26

Haresh Kanabar, IMIC's Chairman, commented:"The completion of this acquisition is transformational for IMIC and we welcome Afferro's employees to our Company. We invite them, and all stakeholders, to share our vision of becoming an important player in the social and economic development of Africa by unlocking the value of African iron ore.

"Following this acquisition, IMIC is a company with substantial iron ore assets in Cameroon. We intend to progress the development of these assets at the same time as progressing, with our Chinese and other strategic partners, the development of an infrastructure solution for the emerging Cameroon iron ore corridor."