Woodford Patient Capital Share Discussion Threads

[mazarin] 04/11/2017 11:06

CCNP - I have no wish to conflate or confuse holders of WPCT by drawing attention to this article. The general point, within the context of recent performance of WPCT is that its not 'the only' Woodford fund to have suffered lately. The response to Woodford's contrition, in acknowledging that things have gone wrong (in the in hope of reassuring investors) is very relevant to WPCT, regardless of the actual constituents of the Fund, is however quite important. Woodford heads the team that runs WPCT and his 'public acknowledgement' that things haven't been going well is, imv. also an important aspect. I included an extract and link to view the entire article, simply so readers can decide for themselves whether they wish or do not wish to read further. I hope that helps to clear up your apparent misunderstanding of the above.

[dr biotech] 04/11/2017 10:31

I held RM2, was lucky as I “only” lost about 25%. Turned out that the management was completely incompetent on a level with Ratner. There is some smelly stuff in there, but hopefully a few gems too. Did reduce some yesterday as it’s now just above my entry point.

[pugugly] 04/11/2017 10:10

CCNP> Allied Minds is was a significant holding in Patient Capital - Please get your facts correct

Many of the other investments in PC are unlisted so cannot tell however if you would like another current disaster - though may recover having been taken private and largely refunded by Woodford. Have a look at Sphere -

For another disaster which looks as though going bust even though PC has pumped in lots more dosh in Convertibles looks at RM2 - A classic case of Ivory Tower directors.

[ccnp] 04/11/2017 10:01

Perhaps I am missing something or misunderstanding your point?

That's 4 holdings that have nothing to do with Woodford Patient Capital. They are in other Woodford funds. Conflating WPCT and other Woodford fund problems (pretty much those devoted to dividend income based growth) would be to completely misunderstand what Woodford is trying to do with WPCT. It's a chalk and cheese comparison.

Agreed Woodford appears to have gone AWOL in terms of management but step back and look at the wider market.

Growth in 2016/17 share value has largely been generated by currency fluctuations following BREXIT. If EXIT TO BREXIT win their desired outcome, sterling rockets, FTSE dives, we have a GE followed by Corbyn in No10 and UK plc takes on a remarkable resemblance to Venezuela.

Trees and woods (and we all know what the bears do in the woods)

[mazarin] 04/11/2017 09:23

For no apparent reason, I can think of things have slightly turned around here lately and an article this week end, comments on the relative poor performance of WPTC and other managed funds. Here's an extract:
"......Over the summer months Woodford suffered one stock disaster after another, as shares in Provident Financial (PFG), AstraZeneca (AZN), Allied Mines (ALM) and AA (AA.) all fell sharply for various reasons. Some falls followed profits warnings and could have been anticipated, but others - such as the fall in the AA's share price triggered by the firm's executive chairman being sacked for gross misconduct - could not have been foreseen.
Rather than hide, Woodford confronted his critics and issued an apology for his fund's poor performance.
Reassuring investors, he said: "[While] the short-term performance is painful and difficult, it isn't a permanent loss of capital. And I can, and I believe I will, rebuild the performance and rebuild that capital that we've lost recently."
Fund analysts have overwhelmingly backed Woodford, insisting that he has not become a bad fund manager overnight.
Tom Becket, chief investment officer at wealth manager Psigma, points out that Woodford has tended to run 'hot and cold' over his career, but over the long run he has outperformed the FTSE All-Share index (ASX) by a considerable margin.
He says: "When a fund manager is out of form, an investor's natural reaction is to sell, but they should really be doing the opposite, as peak negativity around a fund manager can be a sign that they are about to start outperforming again......."

For the full article, see :

[andyj] 02/11/2017 12:16

Well, I'm out now, after a drop in the NAV wiped out the gains of the past few days.

[mazarin] 01/11/2017 17:37

There's patience and there's 'patience'. I can fully sympathise with those who are currently disappointed with the general performance of this fund. No-one invests their hard earned money to see it dissipate over a couple of years. So its reasonable for some perhaps, now to feel they've given enough time to this. Loss of value in the context of an 'increasing cost of living index' and drop in value of Sterling over the same period further compounds the problem. We invest, hoping to offset these factors. For my part, I'm prepared to give it more time, but not everyone has the luxury to take the same view.

[p1nkfish] 01/11/2017 17:13

This too will pass.
Ipo/ivo now one.
Merc in with Edinburgh Uni.
News on others too.

The Trust, for all its faults, is biassed towards new economy growth and that is the future like it or not.

Frustrating but it does say "Patient" in the name.

[ccnp] 01/11/2017 16:16

Tsk tsk. Someone (well actually, quite a lot of you by the looks of it) didn't read the Prospectus.

[p1nkfish] 01/11/2017 14:41

Impatient leave, only patient remain.

Self selecting trust as it filters out the holders.

[andyj] 01/11/2017 11:30

NAV continuing to enjoy a modest surge upwards.

[andyj] 30/10/2017 12:05

NAV highest for a week now.

[riskvsreward] 27/10/2017 18:54

Well, when companies like alm were priced almost four times its current price, obviously Woodford piled in and thought they were great value.

[topvest] 27/10/2017 18:04

If I was a shorter, then this must be near top of the list. Unfortunately I'm not! I'm very bearish on this. It's a pile of overpriced technology.

[andyj] 27/10/2017 12:19

And another new low for the NAV....

[andyj] 25/10/2017 02:13

We are now easy prey for shorters, I suspect some have taken positions already. It may well prove the only way to make a profit on this share. Let's hope the NAV steadies this week.

[topvest] 24/10/2017 21:03

Given most of their investments are priced for success, I would say they need rather a few big winners!

[riverman77] 24/10/2017 19:50

I think we basically need another big success story to restore sentiment, eg another Purplebricks. Until then I suspect the discount will just keep drifting wider and wider.

[riskvsreward] 24/10/2017 18:42

It is not getting better it is getting worse by the day as market goes up this goes down.

The trouble is that one cannot see what could reverse this poor performance.

[mazarin] 24/10/2017 18:04

It's been a very disappointing run recently and constantly been going 'South' since July. During which time we've heard very little from Neil Woodford, other than things will only get better. I've been in for over a year and now find myself below the starting point. Longer term holders have faired far less well.

[rackers1] 24/10/2017 16:51

2.5 years maybe short time but with the markets up as they have been to be down 15 pct is a crime.

[elmfield] 24/10/2017 16:10

Vanity and self importance,
Has a lot to answer for.
Investing can make a fool of the best.

[andyj] 24/10/2017 15:48

It is long enough to know that we bought the vast majority of other funds we would be better off, let alone buying random shares giving the markets strength! We paid someone to choose shares that have gone the other way! There's no hiding from that! I wish I had been more patient in buying them!

[p1nkfish] 24/10/2017 13:33

My idea of patience might be somewhat longer than some others.
2.5 yrs isn't a long in the market.

[blueteam] 24/10/2017 10:06

heading to test 85p level again.