Vphase Share Discussion Threads

[melton john] 17/7/2009 08:40

Dump this and get into SOLA while you can.

[wharfboy] 22/6/2009 15:38

drkite - Very interesting to read your analysis. The figures come from a recent broker note which attributes them to the company

[neddo] 22/6/2009 12:35

why would the utilities put money into this company ,surely they would have looked into it first? not a holder yet, just watching.

[potem] 21/6/2009 23:28

The question seems to me to be likely to be whether any savings warrant the price of the kit. The jury is still out on that. If it was certainly not a runner S&S would be gone. If it certainly was they would be swamped with advance orders.

I just don't trust experts on BB's.

[yump] 21/6/2009 23:09

I have no intention of investing here, but it is going to be very entertaining to come back when the dust has settled and see who eats humble pie, as noone seems to be able to take a middle ground view.

Its either a complete sham, or a brilliant invention.
Who knows ?

As noone has actually been given real facts to publish here and verified by anyone independent, it appears to be a lottery.

btw just to clarity any confusion:

2 people agreeing is 2 people agreeing, not independent verification.

So however well qualified you are, that sort of ego-massaging also indicates a distinct lack of scientific thinking.

But when has anyone ever bothered about that on a BB ?

[potem] 21/6/2009 23:01

I hope Scottish and Southern are reading this thread. They will save themselves a fortune as they are funding the trials. If only they had asked the experts first.

Or maybe they did.

[recommended] 21/6/2009 20:11

drkite

Thank you for your post.

I am not qualified sufficiently in your world to know if you are correct but I will certainly assume that you are! What you say seems to make a lot of sense. I have met the company and was suitably suspicious

I would be interested to know your view on Active-Energy's product which is actually on the market, working and I believe has happy customers (it's part of Cinpart CINP )

[melton john] 19/6/2009 19:20

Good evening Drkite. I am pleased to have independent corroboration of my opinion. When you give an negative view it is like criticising peoples driving or saying their wife is ugly. Nobody wants to hear that the emperor has no clothes.
Wharfboy you do not reference the source of you information.
Still nobody raises an eyebrow at the £50M valution of this company which has yet to earn any profits. Dream on punters.

[wharfboy] 19/6/2009 15:04

drkite,

I'm not a technician but these are the device specific savings indicated...

"A" rated freezer 17%
"A" rated refrigerator 16%
3-speed central heating pump 15%-18%
Lighting
CFL lighting 11%
Incandescent bulb 15%
Low voltage halogen spot lights 15%
Consumer electronics
DAB radio 5%
DECT cordless phone base station 41%
ADSL modem and wireless router 5%
Personal Computer 4%
Hi-Fi 13%

[drkite] 19/6/2009 09:16

Firstly, I would like to apologise for sounding off without reading the entire thread. Most has already been covered by Melton John.

I only came across the VX1 yesterday when it was referenced in an entirely different BB – it sounded too good to be true so I made my comments accordingly.

I am degree qualified, UMIST (same as Juby but more than 20 years earlier!), over 40 years experience, the last 20 as an electronics design and manufacturing consultant. I have worked in many fields and have patents in my name for power supply and power amplifier designs to 0.25MW. I don't think I would still be in business if I got it all wrong.

2naive mentioned Power Factor Correction, omzy noted the S&S Energy investment.
IF the VX1 provides some PFC, then this will be sufficient reason for the utilities to invest.

Large industrial installations fit PFC devices costing £100k+ in order to get their PF as close to 1 as possible because they are charged for kVA.
The domestic spinning disk consumption meter measures kW not kVA – so the home user is not charged for reactive power.
Electricity generation and distribution has to be sized for kVA, not kW.

If the utility is supplying the domestic market at close to unity power factor, they will save on equipment costs, installation costs, fuel costs AND C02.

The aforementioned Switched Mode Power Supply found in so many modern electronic devices generally has a very poor PF. (More recent designs sometimes have PFC built in and run at efficiencies of 85%+.)

The VX1 has to be aimed at devices which are left on for many hours, e.g. computers and/or TVs, the rest of the time it will be bypassed or in bypass mode.

Currently, I can only think of "old fashioned" lighting, garden pond pumps and devices with mains transformers (magnetising current will be less, but copper losses will increase somewhat; properly designed linear PSUs will benefit) which will actually consume less power with a lower supply voltage.
Now, the little old lady who leaves all her (incandescent) lights on because she is afraid of the dark – she could save.
I have not had the time (or inclination) to spend fully researching the VX1, but the hype just does not add up. Please will somebody prove me wrong? With performance figures that is, not publicity.

To sum up, if it heats or cools, it will just run for longer to make up for the voltage reduction.
If it has a SMPSU it will use MORE current, not less.

[drkite] 18/6/2009 10:21

Sorry to be a wet blanket, but 10% savings in the home?
It could actually increase the cost of running most electronic equipment -
Computers/TVs, phone chargers etc have Switched Mode Power Supplies, these will use more current at lower voltages.

According to:

the vphase handles 2kW - even your kettle will cause it to go into bypass.
Cooking is thermostatically self varying - if the voltage is lowered from 240-220, the heating will just stay on longer, same for any electrical heating. Similarly fridges and freezers will run with a greater duty cycle.
Yes, you will save on incandescent lighting, pond pumps and the like but with low energy lighting becoming more common, the savings will be minimal.

The installation will require either a new or adapted consumer unit.
The supply for electric cookers, immersion heaters and power showers will have to bypass the vphase.
Worst of all, your toast will take longer...

Or am I missing something?

[neddo] 17/6/2009 11:27

don't hold, but looks good 10% saving on electricity can't be bad?

[recommended] 15/6/2009 07:53

So, big news!lol The company said they were trialling this product in early february. Clearly they haven't even started!!

[wharfboy] 12/6/2009 22:06

Heard Ambrian has put out a 15p target on the stock..

[very quick] 20/5/2009 14:31

Take a look at NANO this has HUGE HUGE HUGE world potential.

[omzy] 20/5/2009 14:04

I wonder if Miliband will be claiming for a VX1 on his expenses.

[melton john] 20/5/2009 14:00

"Also their patents had better be strong......."

I don't think they have any, I'm sure the PR lady will correct me if I'm wrong.

[pounddreamer] 20/5/2009 13:48

The company is overvalued at the moment but if the VX1 works and does what it says on the tin then it will be worth much more in time. Also the big boys will want a slice of the action so a takeover approach could happen once Vphase get traction. Also their patents had better be strong.......
This RNS shows the company is obviously well connected which can only be good.
The roll out of smart meters is also good news for Vphase. Good PR for domestic energy saving devices and maybe the VX1 can be installed at the same time
Still watching with ever more interest..............

[melton john] 20/5/2009 13:21

All hot air at the moment chaps. What makes this company worth £60million today?

SIT had a similar fancy valuation when I started watching them. Look at them now. Great product, management that couldn't run a bath.

As I said before, a share that might make money trading it, just make sure you aren't the one stuck with it when the music stops.

[sagem] 20/5/2009 13:16

Why are we bothered with all these minor details.....the major thing is investors are buying and the market makers have increased the share price that all we want

[zap217] 20/5/2009 12:15

Melton John - 6 May'09 - 17:35 - 213 of 226


"I wonder if vphase will be involved in these mass metres being installed"

Wouldn't think so.


Melton John - 7 May'09 - 13:31 - 218 of 226


MLM, yes I've seen it but don't see the connection with the post about smart meters. Just to clarify my previous post, they don't have a smart meter product to sell, the VX1 will be installed by dealers as they don't have the manpower.
Where does the smart meter migration benefit Vphase?

Humble Pie Melton. Taste that Humble Pie

[omzy] 20/5/2009 10:24

" Vphase dont make meters"

Well slap my thighs Melton John has got something correct at long long last.

What they do produce is voltage control technology that will save its customers 10% of their electricity bills. In addition they have the confidence of Scottish Southern Energy and British Gas.According to todays RNS it now has a potential market of 26 million with no competition

[sagem] 20/5/2009 09:49

Masurenguy ..perhaps Melton John has not researched this company very well because I am sure that Scottish & Southern Energy and British Gas would not involve themselves if they did not think that this metre had a a very good future,
our Melton John needs to do his homework more thoroughly.