Viridas Share Discussion Threads

[steddieddie] 30/1/2012 15:11

engelo...

"Surely though the premium ratings of clean shells reflect the hope/expectation for 'new' assets to be reversed in. This is certainly the way I view ZOL, for example"

Yes, I agree and alluded to this when I said "it is necessary to consider the nature of the dynamic (or the likely forward dynamic should the stated mission then be accomplished)"

However, while perception is one thing, I'm not sure I would agree that in reality, there is any meaningful difference between ZOL and VIR's current status as companies. Each one is an investing company under AIM rules, each of them has made and sold investments so far.

ZOL's Business Description for AIM Rule 26 says this:

"Zoltav Resources Limited is a London Stock Exchange AIM listed company, trading under the ticker symbol ZOL. Following the disposal of Crosby Asset Management Limited, announced and ratified in October 2010, the Company is classified under the AIM Rules as an investing company.

The Company's investment strategy is to acquire interests in natural resources, minerals, metals, and/or oil & gas projects such as (without limit) exploration permits and licenses, mining and production licenses or processing and development projects, which may be achieved through acquisitions, partnerships or joint venture arrangements."

Whereas, VIR's say this:

"Viridas plc is an investing company listed on AIM, focused on opportunities in the natural resources sector.

The Company's Investment Strategy is to focus on the natural resources sector. In line with this policy, it will consider a range of relevant investments including permits and licences, mining and production licences or processing and development projects by way of acquisitions, partnerships or joint venture arrangements. Such investments may result in the Company acquiring the whole or part of a company or project.

The Company's investments may take the form of equity, joint venture, debt, convertible instruments, licence rights or other financial instruments. The Company will consider opportunities anywhere in the world, with a particular focus on Africa, South America, Australasia and Central and Eastern Europe. Where appropriate, the Company is prepared to take an active role in its investments."

So in substantive terms, what's the real difference here? Personally, I don't see very much and that was the purpose of the quickly cobbled together comparison list. It's not scientific, just food for thought as to why some peers are trading at premiums, even substantial premiums. Are they too high or is VIR too low?

Either way, the market will normally catch up with the right answer eventually and having a bet on the answer makes the game what it is.

[kiino-ke] 30/1/2012 14:21

VIR should put her money where the mouth is MHG.

[engelo] 30/1/2012 12:43

steddieeddie (765) thanks for this v useful analysis.

Surely though the premium ratings of clean shells reflect the hope/expectation for 'new' assets to be reversed in. This is certainly the way I view ZOL, for example.

As you say VIR is now seen to be an investment co (as it said on the tin), and so the mkt can assign a discount to it (although ridiculous level imv atm).

A comparison could be made with SVE (another BR investment co) which I will take a look at. From memory the discount has wobbled about from 20 to 40%.

[steddieddie] 30/1/2012 10:33

Probably because it isn't a shareholding, it's a right to a shareholding at a certain price.

[sweepie2] 30/1/2012 10:20

Good point over at the other BB site reference VIR and that is why isn't the 7% shareholding in LDP if options were exercised listed as an investment on Viridas web site?

[sweepie2] 30/1/2012 09:58

If only we knew what deals, we would all be very rich investers

[abbey8] 30/1/2012 09:55

Good morning , deals what deals , at the moment whiskey is taking over as an investment than gold and other's. Bought at £50 now £180.

[sweepie2] 30/1/2012 09:30

Until further news it will be staying in this trading range, not worth selling as this could fly when next deal is announced

[marab] 30/1/2012 09:13

That 372,045 was a buy :) so I have to presume the 500,000 was as well.

[bronislav] 29/1/2012 09:20

Great future beckons for vir.already shown that they can spot an opportunity and not afraid to take their profit.not sure where they are going in the future ,are they part of something bigger being planned by others,sure time will tell.patience and not a quick buck is probably the best path for investors,2012 surely will be less than uneventful.

[marab] 28/1/2012 13:49

steddieddie - truly excellent post. It doesn't matter whether people agree or disagree because you have put in so much detail that they can make up their own minds. No way I am trying to follow a quality post like that except to pick up a point on share prices and NAV, (I own a few VIR so may be biased). Normally with shell companies big investors buy quintillians of shares for an average price of nothingpence each. PIs hear the news and think they will buy in, normally at multiples of the price of the big investors, and the share price goes to a sky high premium to NAV. Here we have the same sort of thing (ask the old VIR share holders how they felt when the low placings were announced) EXCEPT we now have the opportunity to buy in at a 30% discount to NAV, or 5% discount to the cash held by the company. If the deals keep coming anything like the LDP one, the future could be very bright indeed.

From an earlier RNS last year -
'Viridas, the AIM listed investing company (AIM:VIR), announces that the Company has raised an additional £500,000 before expenses, by way of a subscription for 125 million new ordinary shares of 0.1 pence each in the share capital of the Company (the "New Ordinary Shares") at a price of 0.4 pence per share (the "Subscription Price"). The Subscription Price represents a discount of 3.6 per cent. to the closing mid market share price on 11 July 2011 and a premium of 60 per cent. to the conversion price of 0.25 pence for each new ordinary shares issued on 18 May 2011.'

[marab] 27/1/2012 19:57

steddieddie - comparing our figures, we seem to be singing from the same spreadsheet, so hopefully we are somewhere near correct. I reckon we are at a 5% per cent discount to cash alone as you pointed out. I have been involved with stocks that had lots of cash but still traded at a discount (check out SEA for an example) but if VIR can do even one deal a year like the one with LDP I would be more than happy to buy more of these at a premium when funds became available. I don't know whether ZOL is selling VIR, as some have suggested, but one man's mistake is another man's buying opportunity.

[marab] 27/1/2012 19:48

LDP is still doing well, hope we still have the warrants. If you see any errors below please let me know..  COST TOTAL  SP VALUE LDP SHARE PRICE0 0 0 0.6£0 LDP WARRANTS @ 0.15P166,000,000 0.15 0 0.45£747,000 BRADY17,000,000 1.15 195,500 2.1£357,000 TOTAL INVESTMENTS       £1,104,000 CASH       £3,369,200 TOTAL INC CASH       £4,473,200                     MARKET CAP578000000 0.55    £3,179,000 Discount share price to NAV28.9%     NAV0.774           Asset values based on bid prices         Market Cap based on offer price       

[carchase] 27/1/2012 19:31

and what if LDP are subject of a bid themselves? would it be wise to sell out the warrants now......or hang in there for the bigger cash-in?

The sale of the previous shares has put VIR on a much better footing, stable and a secured future. The Warrants are no risk, and good business.

Sweepie I remember you mentioning selling but there is no law mate of you can afford to buy back again? Good luck if you, as I am still in there and here.

[steddieddie] 27/1/2012 19:28

pamelling...I reckon your NAV is understated. My own rough estimate is:

Brady @ 2.1p = 357,000

LDP Warrants @ .6p (.45p net) = £750,000

LDP Sale Proceeds = £2,869,200

Existing cash in Hand prior to sale (guess) = £500,000

Total = £4,476,200

Shares in Issue = 577,860,000

Current NAV = 0.7746 of which 0.58p is actually in cash.

Great early investment record and, as at this evening, £58 in cash alone for every £55 invested. £77.50 in total, taking in the current value of other holdings.

What a supersized gift horse!

[sweepie2] 27/1/2012 17:12

No brainer in buying the warrents and then selling them on, kicking myself for selling all of LDP and to think sold the first lot at .35p

[ezlington] 27/1/2012 16:18

Anyone got the time to do a good summary of the current status at VIR

and start a new thread?

[pamelling] 27/1/2012 15:56

Come on Mr Lee, buy the warrants in LDP and let's get some true value in VIR share price ..

[sweepie2] 27/1/2012 15:14

VIR & BRDY web sites are nearly exactly the same, web designer is the same, talk about close conections

[pamelling] 27/1/2012 13:52

Using BRDY 2.10p & LDP 0.61p our current NAV price 0.56p... with warrants 0.69p...

Spread narrowing, must be due a tick up...

[gregpants] 27/1/2012 11:32

Am fairly surprised to see an investment shell being sold below cash. I stand by my original speculation that those numpties at ZOL are actually selling. Talk about looking a gift-horse in the mouth! Anyway, this one will be substantially higher in due course so I guess they can do what they want for now, allows me a small top up methinks.

[marab] 27/1/2012 11:04

engelo - I've been out and about or I would have done it sooner. Normally people would argue that an investment company, which VIR is at the moment, generally trade at a discount to NAV. Looking at VIR's performance over the last few months I think one could argue that they should be trading at a premium. LDP's share price seems to indicate that there is more news to come there and, since VIR have not issued an RNS, we have to presume that they are still holding the LDP warrants. I hope VIR continue being so prompt with RNSs as it makes a refreshing change from most AIM companies. As someone commented earlier VIR have already amended their listed holdings in LDP on the website. I have to say I am quite encouraged by the professionalism of VIR to date.

[engelo] 27/1/2012 11:04

Wondering who might be selling. Perhaps ZOL clearing the decks for action? Haven't been watching the volumes to see if this idea is justified.