Verditek Share Discussion Threads

[chawkers] 14/1/2021 17:24

Interesting that European transportation company H Essers are trialling IM Efficiency's Solar on Top panels on 2 of their trucks. If trials are successful (results expected in 1H2021) then the bulk of their fleet could adopt solar panels. H Essers have a fleet of 1,475 lorries and 3,340 trailers and have deep pockets (2019 t/o of E746m). With 8 x 350W of panels per truck that is potentially quite a large order even if it is split between more than one flex SPV producer! VDTK appear still to be in the mix for at least some of the contract - paid trials began in April of 2020 but were delayed by Cov19 and the onset of winter. If VDTK are successful then they could use that as a springboard to target other large transport fleet operators in Europe and North America. I assume that the likes of DHL and UPS in the US will also come into the market for flex SPVs when they shift to EVs (with Arrival EVs)

"H.Essers first to innovate with solar panels on trucks in Belgium

SolarOnTop pilot with two vehicles running at H.Essers

Sustainability is one of the biggest goals within H.Essers. In their ongoing search for ways to make things more sustainable, H.Essers recently joined forces with the Dutch company IM Efficiency. Since September, a pilot project has been running in which two of their trailers are fully equipped with solar panels, so that they can investigate the extent to which solar energy can provide a vehicle with green power. "We are the first logistics player in Belgium to try this out," says Dirk Franssens. "It all started with a simple question: can we make a vehicle more energy efficient by using solar panels? In collaboration with IM Efficiency, which is an expert in installing solar panels on heavy vehicles, we converted this question into a working proof-of-concept".

Special technology
Martijn Ildiz, CEO of IM Efficiency, is closely following the project: "Equipping trucks with solar panels can significantly reduce the vehicle's CO2 emissions. At IM Efficiency we have developed a technology to realize this, called SolarOnTop. The pilot project we are carrying out with H.Essers provides crucial insights to make the SolarOnTop robust, reliable and effective. This two-vehicle trial is a great first step".

On to spring
The two trailers are currently being actively used within the fleet. And the expectations are high. Dirk: "That's why we want to collect as much data as possible about the precise operation of the solar panels in combination with the truck. We are counting on a CO2 reduction of 5 tons per installation". It remains to be seen exactly what the results of the project will be. "Because we started in September and soon found ourselves in the dark months, we don't expect to see more results until spring," explains Dirk Franssens. "It may sound futuristic now, but if IM Efficiency's SolarOnTop installation proves successful for our trucks, we will probably equip a large part of the fleet with solar panels."

hxxps://imefficiency.com/feed/solarontop-pilot-essers-december-2020

[chawkers] 14/1/2021 16:58

Aja2 Yes you are right VDTK can produce modules at different wattages dependent on client demand. As I understand it, there are different costs attached to different cells. Not all customers need the modules to be IEC1394 certified so VDTK could theoretically sell to a price sensitive customer with a low cost 3rd party cell. The WH Ireland report on Oct 8 suggested that production would shift to 350W in 2021 but ultimately it depends on what specs each customer wants. The channel distributors (Solaren/Solar Shop/Future Solar) are currently selling VDTK's 270W modules but I noticed that DAS are selling 350W modules (through Photonic Universe) so maybe that is where the market is shifting. There is theoretically nothing to stop VDTK buying a 435W n type IBC Maxeon cell and producing a module with high (22.8%) efficiency levels but there would be a trade off on costs. There is always a trade off somewhere - for example VDTK can produce camo panels for military applications but the efficiency levels tend to be quite low.

[dubois] 14/1/2021 16:50

yump, no offence taken. You will find most people on here speak their mind but try not to be offensive. Its a good board

[yump] 14/1/2021 16:02

dubois
Sorry if I offended you. The answers were fairly quick after all.

I did read the entire admission doc. which didn't help.

Unfortunately the website and interview with Paul Harrison and the Vox Research report make the business look like some sort of fund, which is confusing when the website show products, but no tech. details.

As it happens I've emailed them about that.

[yump] 14/1/2021 15:54

Thanks for the details guys. So cell agnostic and they are effectively a manufacturing business with a product, having got ownership of the assets of Greenflex Energy.

I think that clarifies it.

Part of the problem is that it was simply not apparent from the website, whether it was some sort of investment fund with a few stakes, or a full business in its own right.

[aja2] 14/1/2021 15:06

When I have spoken to the company they have said they can produce a custom panel so in that case there would be no specific module wattage rating.

[weyweyumfozo] 14/1/2021 14:42

Chawkers,

when you say "VDTK are currently shifting production from 270W to 350W cells", is that something that the Company have told you, as I haven't seen it anywhere before?

This would be an advantage where there are slight limitations in available space. Needing fewer cells to get the power required for a telecoms tower would reduce the wind loading from the panels on the tower. Would also produce more power on top of a truck for example.

[chawkers] 14/1/2021 13:08

It will be interesting to see how the Paragraf JDP develops and how VDTK leverages GIPVs. There are lot of interesting questions. Will Paragraf produce the graphene wafers in house using a foundry and sell the cells direct to VDTK? Will cell production be licensed to traditional SPV makers and will VDTK take a cut of royalties? Will GIPVs be integrated onto Pe PVs to create a super efficient cell? Will VDTK allocate all their production to GIPVs? Will VDTK use the GIPV USP to create their own brand and leverage this to penetrate strategic markets? Will they set up a new company to focus on GIPV cell production similar to Maxeon which was spun out of Sunpower in Aug 2020? What efficiency levels will GIPVs achieve and the $64m question, when will GIPVs be commercialised? Will a SPAC target Paragraf/VDTK's graphene technology? Looking forward to getting answers to some of these questions in the Paragraf JDP update.

[astralvision] 14/1/2021 12:51

Here's part of the rns yump17 May 2019Verditek PLC("Verditek" or the "Company")Verditek takes full control of Solar PV BusinessVerditek plc, (AIM: VDTK) is pleased to announce that it has successfully negotiated full control of Greenflex Energy Limited (previously a 51% subsidiary of Verditek plc), and liquidated Greenflex RSM s.r.l.In doing so Verditek has consolidated all our PV assets in Verditek Solar Italy which will benefit from 100% of the results going forward. The acquisition has been achieved with full cooperation of the minority interest holder, forgiving accumulated losses incurred in Greenflex RMS s.r.l, the asset holding company owned entirely by Greenflex Energy Limited. The consolidated accounts of Verditek plc will reflect this change and full ownership of all assets of Verditek Solar Italy.

[astralvision] 14/1/2021 12:15

Yump, they bought 100% of the pv business, it's all in subsequent RNS to the float.

[aja2] 14/1/2021 12:10

The other possibility is that Paragraf integrates graphene into Oxford PV's perovskite cell; there would then be an agreement between three parties; 35-40% efficiency would be possible in that scenario.

[chawkers] 14/1/2021 11:28

Still seem to be some misconceptions out there about what VDTK does. As discussed many times, VDTK don't own the IP on the cells they use in their current panels! This gives them the flexibility to buy cells in from 3rd parties at different price points to target different markets. They are cell agnostic.They purchase the cells and encase them in a lightweight polymer laminate sandwich which are produced at their factory at Lainate outside Milan.Theoretically they could purchase a high end (24% efficient) Maxeon n-type IBC cell or go for a lower cost alternative.

VDTK are currently shifting production from 270W to 350W cells.If the Paragraf JDP reaches full commercialisation (potentially 2022) then VDTK will have access to patented IP in the form of Graphene Integrated panels (GIPVs) which could be cost competitive with high end n type IBC cells. Efficiency levels on GIPVs are believed to currently be around 27-28% but could eventually exceed 30%, putting them on a par with the Perovskite enabled high end cells being produced by Oxford PV. GIPVs are potentially VDTK's USP not their current gen 1 panels.

[dubois] 14/1/2021 10:53

yump, my problem is the way you say x y and z is wrong with the company. People explain it to you and you then move on and say something else is wrong. Simply do your own research. Invest if you like its potential, or move on if you don't. It is not for someone else to teach you.

All the best

[yump] 14/1/2021 09:24

Well, perhaps it would help other potential investors, for you to explain ?

Simply saying that I'm wrong, actually makes it look more opaque. Its not exactly an easy business model to get to grips with.

Specifically, what is actually wrong ?

[dubois] 14/1/2021 09:19

yump, I'm afraid you couldn't be more wrong. However, the sales people are commission only at the moment. This will change, but its not up to me to explain.
Good luck with where ever you go for investment

[yump] 14/1/2021 09:01

Sorry for cluttering the thread - someone correct me if I'm wrong, I thought this was a business with a group of committed employees, but I've just realised they basically subcontract everything. Its headquarters is an investment fund base and it appears to be in effect a fund that has found one thing that sells a bit: thin solar panels.

A few people acting as a kind of broker between other businesses.

It seems to be something inbetween a fund and a 'normal' business and an experiment with float money, so I'm out as they say.

I noticed this in the float document, which seems to be an open-ended statement. Having read about the apparent inventor, I cannot find any detail on the IP that resides within the Italian business.

Without unique IP residing 100% within Verditek, I don't see anything other than a group of ex-investment managers.

"Further, the Company holds a 50 per cent. interest in Greenflex Trading. Greenflex Trading is currentlya dormant company but it is intended that it will hold marketing rights and/or licensing opportunities inrelation to the products manufactured by Greenflex and Greenflex San Marino"

"Longer term, Greenflex intends to explore licencing opportunities of its technology through GreenflexTrading, which is currently a dormant company."

Who holds the other 50% of Greenflex Trading, because potentially all the marketing rights could be granted to Greenflex Trading.

Experienced investment managers should know that a 50/50 ownership is potentially fraught with difficulties.

[yump] 13/1/2021 21:39

Amazon has loads of microcrstalline thin film panels from China. As an investor I’d like to know what is stopping me from buying those and embarking on the vdtk project route ?

Where’s the efficiency and power comparisons ? Have vdtk got a usp and if so, why is the website not even priming prospective customers with it ?

I thought it might be a business with a great long term future but I have no decent information on which to base that.

To say its disappointing is an understatement. I’ve lived off websites promoting and selling stuff for years and in this day and age the vdtk website is inexcusably like that of a bedroom ebay seller !

Actually on second thought its a bit like a major corporate website in style but with no content.

[cyberbub] 13/1/2021 16:37

I agree the company's public face (ie. it's website) is inexcusably poor.

[yump] 13/1/2021 09:44

Anyone know what size the panels are ?

I'm having to do my own calcs here per m2

[yump] 13/1/2021 08:45

Thanks for the help - I’m being a bit lazy but it takes a while finding out where to look.

[weyweyumfozo] 13/1/2021 08:12

yump,

they've found their way onto barn roofs, and Verditek have confirmed to me that some have been fitted:

"In the UK, Verditek has secured its first order in the agricultural sector, with Verditek solar panels to be installed on the roofs of barns in the near future. Due to the low load bearing characteristics of these structures the installation of a lightweight solar panels on the roof was the only practical solution to generating electricity. In the case of both the marine and agricultural orders, shipment is being made this month out of existing stock levels."



Regarding power output and efficiency:

In October 2020 Verditek were using two variants of cell, Monocrystalline and PERC type.
The mono cell produces approximately 270 watts and the PERC approximately 290 watts, so under STC then 16.1% and 17.3% respectively.

[yump] 13/1/2021 07:22

Thanks. I just wondered why thin panels haven't found their way onto roofs - they've been around a while. I assume it might be an efficiency/power issue.

Has anyone done a list of direct competitors ? ie. any companies with a similar thin film monocrystalline efficient product.

Also are there any links to power output capacity. Can't find anything on VDTK website.
In fact the website seems very light on technical details - I was expecting some sort of scientific comparison between products. Bit surprised by that, as the technical advantage is supposed to be a selling point.

I'll have a look myself if not in previous posts, but potential customers shouldn't have to look elsewhere for that.

I can see why the exact IP/design isn't out in public, but comparisons should be.

[dubois] 12/1/2021 21:57

Yump, large older roofs simply cannot take the weight of conventional panels. It was simply not the market we were in.I think you will see a move towards this sector soon.

[yump] 12/1/2021 21:43

Would I be right in thinking that part of the reason things like warehouses, bus roofs etc., haven't got thin film solar panels on them is because they so inefficient, it wouldn't be worthwhile ?

Also presumably with something this new, they may simply not care until its forced upon them.

Whereas the target markets they're looking at have an incentive eg. mining, remote locations - either its become an environmentally sensitive issue, a functional issue or a financial issue.

The target markets kind of make sense - perhaps its just taken a while to clarify what they are and whether they're actually ready to buy.

I can't imagine how many businesses have said 'that's interesting', sounded very positive and gone no further.