Uil Share Discussion Threads

[spectoacc] 09/6/2021 14:21

Seeing the spread widen to 14p reminding me of the Covid era spread of 38p. Couldn't even get a long way inside it for much size.

[cc2014] 03/6/2021 14:24

It will be interesting to see what PCF held by Somers is worth if and when PCF can get their accounts agreed.

Not important in the scheme of things as UIL portfolio around a third invested in Somers and Somers around 6% invested in PCF, so around 2% of UIL

[spectoacc] 03/6/2021 13:51

Last NAV 390p, impressive, even if it's done with excessive gearing/engineering.

[spectoacc] 19/5/2021 16:38

They seem to be finding some - not huge, but soaking up the sells & threatening breakout again:


"The Board of UIL Limited (the "Company") announces that on 19 May 2021 the Company purchased for cancellation 35,000 ordinary shares of 10p each at a price of 262.00p per share. The lowest/highest price paid per share was 262.00p/262.00p respectively."

[morton2011] 12/5/2021 17:17

Where is the magic tree for the buyback money?!

Zeta doing well with its decent Copper miner from Canada its held for a long time. The ICM question is how do they participate in the Capital option for Zeta which expires in June, expect they will convert the UIL debt in Zeta into equity with normal smoke n mirrors. Good for the NAV but does not appear to generate cash for any buybacks.

[spectoacc] 12/5/2021 14:27

Need a break up and out - not far off - might need RSG to keep dcb'ing off the lows.

I'll be out when the buyback eventually gets it to discount target, wherever that might be at the time.

[vacendak] 12/5/2021 14:20

Nice uptick today.

[spectoacc] 12/5/2021 14:15

Not sure why the buyback has gone so quiet, still miles below NAV discount target.

[vacendak] 26/4/2021 12:46

Well, in the end, "the system" had not updated on Friday and I have now received my notice/result for the rollover. All my 2022s holdings have now converted to 2028s as planned and... I shall keep the additional extra shares I had applied for.

Since I am happy with this, I shall not ask any more questions. Not sure where these come from; but I have paid for them, so this is the end of the story as far as I am concerned.

[vacendak] 26/4/2021 09:03

It is very likely down to the magic of Depositary Interests and the ineptitude of EQi. :)

The ZDPs are DIs in my ISA.

[rob the slob] 26/4/2021 07:30

The placing was cancelled. The rollover and initial offers were met in full, was my reading of the rns. I sold my 22 shares and succesfully subscribed to the initial offer.

[vacendak] 23/4/2021 17:24

...and I have already made 2% on the 2028 today! :)

[vacendak] 23/4/2021 16:12

Looks like EQi messed up with my ZDP holdings.

I had asked for the following:
1) Rollover ALL of my ZDP 2022 into 2028.
2) Get more from the placing programme.

Somehow I end up with:
* My old ZDP 2022 holdings untouched as in "not rolled over".
* Everything I wanted from my placing instructions... which technically has been cancelled.

I have sent a message asking them to explain.

Ironically, I am closer to what I wanted with things being this way rather than rollover only. Let's see if they can rollover my initial holdings retroactively.

[cc2014] 23/4/2021 10:36

I think the why is explainable. It was apparent to them that they were struggling to get the 28's away and the share price discount remains. It must be frustrating for the major shareholders, especially if some of them are looking for an exit with indices at all time highs.

On the other hand these Edison research notes are very helpful to investors, comparatively cheap to produce and I suspect it may be nothing more than that. The daily NAV is a good thing too and I'm personally now very frustrated with some IT's, for example M&G that only report every 3 months, or every month but 3 weeks after the month end. In this fast moving world I'm not interested in investing in a Trust that can only be bothered to work out the numbers so slowly (unless of course I know the underlying has moved in which case their slow pace I'll take advantage of)


As you know I passed on the 28's, mostly because I felt 5.75% just wasn't enough when everything was taken into consideration. Sure, it's a great rate in 2021 but I'm not so sure it will look so great in 2023 onwards. Time will tell. Also, the underlying investments carry a level of risk which personally makes me feel uncomfortable. I recognise I am more risk adverse than most investors. Also, I have 26s so that kind of added slightly to my views.

I think we can sucessfully argue they nearly pitched it about perfectly as they just about got the issue away although it seems Shore Capital are using "their best endeavours" to shift the last lump. I suspect tbh Shore Capital haven't shifted all of them and they are sitting on them, as surprise, surprise it is them at are sitting on the bid at 101p today and on all the others.

[vacendak] 23/4/2021 09:39

Yep, this is what I have read in the tea-leaves too.
It would make sense.

Have people noticed the Edison report today?
Unless mistaken, this is the first time this has happened. Those things are paid for though, not outright paid to say nice things, but they are not fully independent.
They have been making a lot of efforts on the public relation side lately, the daily NAV, now the Edison review... Why? When hardly anybody beyond the friends and family of the ICM crew hold the shares.

[cc2014] 23/4/2021 09:19

I have no evidence to support this but I suspect the remaning 22's may be rolled into 30's in due course, giving £25m in each tranche.

Because if they just redeem them, then they have to sell £25m ++ of investments to balance the cash position. And I don't think they will want to sell Somers.

[vacendak] 23/4/2021 09:11

True, I got it wrong.
I am just miffed I will not get what I asked for.

From the numbers I expect indeed to get all I asked to rollover to be turned into 2028, still waiting for the message from EQi though.

I wanted to let my 2022 paper mature and turn my 2022s in my ISA into 2028s, then top up a bit with the placement to keep roughly the same amount of ZDPs. Oh well, all best laid plans and such...

I guess UIL Ltd wiping out the rest of the ZDPs from the first phase saves them money on the now cancelled issue.

[morton2011] 23/4/2021 07:50

@V I agree with Eagle Eye.
EagleEye. The new issue UTLI is listed and starts trading today I believe.

In other news ICM Alchemy division has managed to add value by splitting out ICM Mobility Ltd from Allectus reading the March factsheet. There was no change in any of the underlying assets that transferred they just have a different name on the tin. It is registered in the UK however and Mr Saville pops up as a director and has moved to Singapore if companies house to be believed. ICM also created ICM Mobility Group Ltd and this is owned by the usual directors behind ICM being Saville, Jillings and Younie. No explanation what that does. All the underlying assets been around for years. ICM Mobility is owned 60% by Vix Ltd from Bermuda (VIX and Saville go back a long way) and 40% by UK. Allectus still listing all the same assets as within their portfolio and no news from them about this transaction.

For the ZDP then added more 2024 as their risk reduces as a result of the 2028 issue and 2022 cancellations as I see it.

[eagle eye] 23/4/2021 07:37

No, I don't think you will find that was the case at all.
Of the 5.15m not rolled over, only 4.57m were taken up with the excess purchased by UIL itself.
There was plenty for everyone and I received my full allocation.

UILI ZDP 2028: Issue price 100p on 20/4/21. Redemption 152.29p on 31/10/28.
Yield to redemption 5.75%. Cover x 1.2.

[vacendak] 21/4/2021 17:11

Well, no additional issue of ZDP 2028 for me or anyone. Hopefully I shall at least get my full rollover, since there were some spare shares to issue at the time.

5.75% was plenty attractive for the big institutions in the end.

[vacendak] 16/4/2021 09:44

They found more rollover applications beyond the deadline.

[spectoacc] 15/4/2021 08:48

Ha ha - better than Ponzi Point I guess.

[vacendak] 15/4/2021 08:45

The meeting of 2022 and 2024 ZDP holders, after first failing a quorum, has now been postponed due to COVID measures in Bermuda. They are also moving it to a place called "Pirates Point", a bit ominous for a financial company, isn't it? :)

[spectoacc] 13/4/2021 13:20

The big drag RSG dcb'ing 17% today.