Uil Share Discussion Threads

[ceaserxzy] 09/7/2019 19:35

lots of tradings of shares by directors and fund managers recently. Anyone here can make some sense of this sudden burst of activities?

[morton2011] 09/7/2019 08:07

Any reason known for the nett asset on the income side jumping by 20p in the RNS of 1 June which is a massive jump? The ex income reduces by a similar amount. That income will need to be paid out at some point presumably and perhaps behind the shuffling in ICM. UIL sitting on quite a lot of income already. Afterpay continues to shine and UIL been steadily selling down it's stake. I noticed that PayPal in UK offer the same 'free credit' facility now that afterpay is all about. The valuation seems high so sensible to keep trimming the holding and realise the cash.Zeta share price will not increase despite all the buybacks and ICM must own nearly all of it now.

[vacendak] 08/7/2019 20:12

A flurry of sales/buys which were in essence exchanges between the key players and the funds/companies they are related with. Charles Jillings' wife is also involved.











Two lots of shares marked as sell (200,000 and 383,790), but as the RNS show this did not really matter as the share price was up by 4p or 1.9% by the end of the day.

[vacendak] 05/7/2019 20:05

Another good day for UIL Ltd.

Looking at today's RNS:


Another layer of indirect-holdings for those running the ICM show, this time through this Mitre company mentioned in the RNS. It is based in Jersey and has been in existence for twelve years.

Charles Jillings runs Utilico Emerging Market (UEM) and from the performance of the past few weeks, he runs it well.

So again, not complaining that the key players have skin in the game.

[russman] 03/7/2019 17:30

A discount is warranted as the big holdings are illiquid.
But not 40plus.

[ceaserxzy] 03/7/2019 14:01

NAV on the start of the year was 296 p, so 25% up in half an year.

According to Morningstar the annualized NAV performance over 10, 5. 3 and 1 years are

14.4%, 21.5% , 17.5% and 28.9%

With such good and consistent performance it certainly doesn't deserve to be traded at such a huge discount.


Would like to see the management prioritize discount control through more buybacks and also start progressive dividend payments.

[vacendak] 03/7/2019 12:59

Latest NAV now above 370p.

369.81p last week (June 28th) and 371.05p as of yesterday.

About the PDMR share buys, they seem to be choregraphed for the ICM managed funds. They happen roughly at the same time for Utilico Emerging Markets (UEM). They also tend to happen prior to a jump, as if Mr Market waited for those RNS before deciding to reprice UTL closer to what it is worth.

I am not saying it is insider knowledge, because nothing big seems to happen to the underlying stocks around those times anyway.
They never seem to be selling, unless the sell orders are not recorded as RNS.

Glad to be holding those UTL shares at the moment.

[ceaserxzy] 02/7/2019 17:13

The NAV has gone up by almost 25% from the 2nd of Jan. to the 2nd of July. This is really cheap for such good performance.

Multiple directors buys every quarter are also reassuring.

The good quality and diversified underlying investments, in uem, apt, rsg, plus the double discounts in somers and uem etc, make the big discount of over 40% even more attractive.

Recent share buybacks are also useful for hopefully putting some spur to the share price and narrow that big discount.

[vacendak] 02/7/2019 11:11

And another big daily jump, +7 or +3.5%.
After pay jumped 7% overnight, good showing for Resolute and Panoramic too.

Oddly enough, more sells recorded that buys so far.

[vacendak] 21/6/2019 19:48

Resolute was well traded on the ASX and its price discovery was already decent; so more of a good thing is good news indeed.

Something not really picked-on is how the NAV gets eyeballed. In few words: Not easily. Once everything is opened and laid flat (Somers, Zeta, Allectus, etc.) there is a lot of level 2 and level 3 estimates for the ultimate components.


Ideally Somers, Zeta and all the rest of the so-called platforms should move to the LSE.


After its recent significant increase, UTL seems to be back into a holding pattern.

[russman] 21/6/2019 05:30

Resolute have listed on LSE.
Maybe some of their larger investments should be encouraged to transfer to LSE.
Greater transparency may aid the discount.

[topvest] 15/5/2019 12:52

About time - this was very cheap.

[vacendak] 15/5/2019 09:35

Ding ding ding! UTL above 200p.

We are back to the '00s.

:)

Is this a Resolute and Panoramic effect?
Panoramic went up but 9.4% overnight, exposure through Zeta mostly.

[vacendak] 14/5/2019 09:11

Infratil used to be a big chunk of UIL Ltd back in the days when the trust was about utilities. Now it has dropped from the top 10 investments.

That being said, thanks for the information.

I still have no clue about the recent share price jump. Not that I am complaining of course.

[cyfran101] 13/5/2019 23:40

Hmmm not so much a rumour14 May 2019 8:30amInfratil announces NZ$3.4 billion acquisition of Vodafone New ZealandWould this move the dial?

[cyfran101] 13/5/2019 23:30

Is it due to infratil rumour in sunday times?"It has also emerged that the company is in talks to sell its New Zealand business to the infrastructure company Infratil, which is reportedly teaming up with Canada's Brookfield Asset Management"

[pherrom] 18/4/2019 10:17

I've no idea but one of the non-execs has bought 40,000 @ £1.98 so maybe he has some idea but there again, maybe not.

[vacendak] 17/4/2019 21:47

Anybody with an idea why people have been buying like mad for the past couple of days?
Rumour has it that John Baron Portfolios has recommended UIL Ltd as a buy.

The NAV is still climbing and has for a while, so there could be a momentum effect too Bots buying on rising NAV ?!?

As usual, I am afraid it might all drop again as inexplicably as it has risen.

[vacendak] 12/4/2019 11:09

Up by 4.50p / 2.5%.
28 trades, only 3 sell, before eleven o'clock today.
What is the excitement all about?

Is Mike Ashley buying after being p*ssed off with Debenhams? :)

[vacendak] 11/4/2019 14:55

Very good sleuthing on this link. Thanks.

I would have sworn that GPLPF was Duncan Saville's vehicle.

However, I have to stand corrected (see page 3 of this 2013 document).

Some people specifically wanted to know and were then reassured that it was not the case.

As for UIL Ltd/UIL Finance Ltd, see under paragraph 9 "Parent company":
H
Or for the PDF version:


"In the opinion of the Directors, from 26 June 2018 the Company's ultimate parent undertaking is Somers Isles Private Trust Company Limited ("SIPTCL"), a company incorporated in Bermuda and owned by Mr Duncan Saville (prior to 26 June 2018, the Group's ultimate parent undertaking was General Provincial Life Pension Fund Limited ("GPLPF") which is incorporated in Bermuda)."

So, as of June of last year, Duncan Saville "owns" UIL Ltd slightly more openly. SIPTCL is mentioned in the link given by Davebowler as the entity managing the HH Stephens Trust... which literally brings us back full circle (or long winding path to be exact) to Duncan Saville.

As mentioned earlier many times, all the allegedly dodgy, or at least unusual, cross-ownerships are hiding in plain view: In this case the HY report for UIL Finance (the company that emits the ZDPs). Investors should read the reports in details. I am guilty of skimming through them when issued and only getting back to them when looking for something allegedly fishy, so I am as guilty of laziness as everyone else is.

[russman] 11/4/2019 09:39

Still think a more concerted effort to manage the discount is required.

[vacendak] 10/4/2019 20:52

52 weeks high for the NAV! :)
52 weeks low for the discount at latest NAV. :(

There is a mild upwards momentum for the share price right now. Nothing on fire yet though.

[vacendak] 08/4/2019 12:32

Newly updated website (I had not checked in a while anyway, so "new" for me) for Allectus Capital, the tech. platform for UIL Ltd:



AfterPay, Optal and Vix are listed as holdings, even though they are also held directly by UIL, a bit like Resolute in Zeta.

According to the "About" part of the website, it seems fully owned by UIL Ltd and ICM Ltd, so no price discovery through trading. I have not checked on any of the portfolio components being listed (apart from AfterPayTouch and Optal of course) anywhere.

[morton2011] 03/4/2019 17:09

Its set down somewhere how often a NAV. Once a week and on the first day of each month from memory.Discount remains due to the debt and few simple to value investments. Share buyback waste of time in my view.Afterpay share price bounced back and is liquid and simple. Somers which can move the NAV most is rarely traded so the opposite. It has been ticking up on very thin trading in last few months if BSX is to be believed.