Uil Share Discussion Threads

[topvest] 31/10/2018 21:16

Yes, I have received my cash on redeeming the 2018 ZDP shares.

[vacendak] 31/10/2018 18:21

Got an email from ICM today.
Three links:

Aforementioned story about cancelling the ZDP 2024:


Old news again about the AR for 2018


Annual report for Zeta:

I have not read it, but it looks more comprehensive than before.

The ZDP 2018 must have been redeemed today. I guess we shall get an RNS about it tomorrow.

[morton2011] 22/10/2018 13:57

Vix Verify investment valued at £ 9.7 million of UIL assets as per Sept factsheet. Presumably they knew the sale was imminent.
£ 40 million of bank debt available as well according to the Sept factsheet.

The cancellation of the 2024 is a little odd as why not sell the 2024 in the market as they are trading above the Accrued Capital Entitlement level. Maybe no large buyers around. It works for me as I believe UIL needs to reduce its overall debt rather than focusing on its Gross NAV and this achieves that.

Afterpay share price hammered in last month.
Optal has been increased significantly in last 6 months in the NAV
@V mentioned Assetco who announced last week they are losing their one contract in the Middle East and combined with the court case result due to be announced this year should produce more cash in next 6 months as presumably the company will be liquidated or sold for cash.

[vacendak] 22/10/2018 12:25

Well, I guess this is good news, which should mean cash on hand for UIL Ltd to pay for the remainder of the ZDP 2018s that did not rollover.
That will also solve the "What the hell exactly are all the Vix entries in the portfolio?" question.

[vacendak] 22/10/2018 09:58

Some cancellation of ZDP holdings:


If I understand it correctly, UIL Ltd is no longer willing to sell more of its debt on the market if it is cancelling some of its ZDP 2024.
The ZDP 2018 cancellation is par for the course since they would have to be redeemed at the end of the month anyway.

Are they going to go easy on debt or were those ZDP 2024s held just in case the cash flow had been tough to payback the ZDP 2018s?
Considering the relatively decent returns, there should be enough cash/liquidities to pay the bill next week.

[vacendak] 16/10/2018 11:36

Vaguely related to UIL Ltd on historical grounds:

These upstanding people (Grant Thornton) were also linked to the Assetco business. Old story from around 2009-10. UIL Ltd had some links to Assetco back then.


Last year's appearance in the news:

[vacendak] 03/10/2018 10:46

@Morton

Well, as you mentioned earlier on you did good with your ZDPs during the long slump (2012-2016) - I shall put aside the days of glory past circa 2007 which are now but distant memories.
So it is fair enough for the holders of ordinaries to enjoy some time under the sun.

I also have a few £Ks in ZDPs across most classes (except the 2026 and the rolled-over 2018 in 2024s) for the sake of it. Just like the Pokémon, I got to catch them all. :)

[morton2011] 03/10/2018 09:58

@V - does sound good.

Will wait to see where the £ 50 million odd they need comes from. They only bought back 823,000 of the shares o/s over last year as per 8 Sept RNS
'Following this purchase, UIL Limited has a holding of 823,564 2018 ZDP Shares and the total number of 2018 ZDP Shares in issue remains unchanged at 32,716,029.'

Selling off the other ZDP they have in treasury would be a good start, or even better just cancel them..this is in the latest monthly factsheet:
'*includes 20.0m ZDP shares 2024 held by UIL + includes 13.4m 2026 ZDP shares held by UIL'

Also in the August factsheet it states under portfolio:
'Purchases in the portfolio for the month of August amounted to
£6.9m while realisations totalled £20.4m.' = £ 13.6 million
yet under debt:
'Bank debt totalled £23.5m as at 31 August 2018, down from £28.2m
in the prior month. AUD 8.0m was repaid during the month, resulting
in balances drawn as AUD 21.1m and CAD 20.0m at 31 August 2018.
Cash balances increased by £6.8m over the month.
The foreign exchange hedge positions to Sterling were broadly
unchanged..' so debt down 4.6 and cash up 6.8 = £11.4 million. What happened to the other £ 2.6 million? Probably used to pay towards the £ 5 million of fees in the financial report issued last month UIL pays ICM to largely manage its own money as 80% or so of the shares owned by ICM or connected parties.

Nothing new in any of the above

Still got some skin in the game as rolled out of the shares into the 20 and 22 zdp. Shares better so far!

[vacendak] 03/10/2018 09:18

Paying the bills:


We have already had a few RNS about hoovering some ZDP 2018 over the past few months.

[russman] 19/9/2018 13:18

The current structure gives the equity enormous gearing.
If UTL think the market is toppy; sell something.

[ceaserxzy] 18/9/2018 22:09

Apart from the good NAV performance, what really matters is that a bunch of directors and fund managers buy regularly and buy big, often in 85,000 and 100,000 shares a time. That shows real confidence in its current value and its future performance.

[vacendak] 18/9/2018 21:22

Annual report is out (to June 30th):


Same for UIL Finance, but nothing much happening here by design:


Very enthusiastic report, everything seems to be flashing green. As usual, careful selection of time frames and use of "total return" flatter the review; but sarcasm aside, this has been a pretty good year indeed for the company. I like the fact that they mention the reduction in debt/gearing a lot this time, the subject used to be at best very muted before. Of course they mention it because it has moved in the right direction by a substantial amount, but still...

The stupidly high see discount is deplored, but nothing can really be done about it. They shall now go easy on share buybacks to make sure they have enough liquidity by the end of October to redeem the last few ZDP 2018 they have not yet hoovered.

The fees are still a bit high, at more than 2% after "adjustment" for the platorm approach; but then again, they do select imaginative stocks and can in no way be accused of shadowing a tracker.

Despite having posted negative comments earlier this year, I am glad I was never tempted to click the SELL button.

[UEM]
There is an Edison report link posted on the UEM thread for those interested. UEM has been battered like most EMs stocks recently.

[vacendak] 24/8/2018 13:31

@rambuttan
Funny how I read the same link half an hour ago myself. :)

[rambutan2] 24/8/2018 13:09

Re above post:

[morton2011] 24/8/2018 09:59

Afterpay coming to the UK having bought Clearpay this week. Share price for APT valued at 3 billion aus this morning ,another 5% increase, and behind most of the NAV increase as others pointed out.

[ceaserxzy] 22/8/2018 17:46

It is doing very well indeed.

As long as its value is doing well, its price will catch up.

What I like is its underlying portfolio looks very good. apt is almost a ten bagger over the last two years. rsg is a low cost gold miner which provides some hedge for uncertain times. Others like pcf (somers owning it), zer/pan (owned by zer),ift all doing fine.

Adding the bonus of recent large multiple purchases by two fund managers and regular buys by all the directors, all pointing in the right direction.

I will keep accumulating until either the discount narrows significantly or the market has turned.

[vacendak] 22/8/2018 14:18

Pretty good progression for the NAV over the past month or so, it is now clocking at 338.20 p


Last week it was at 328.11 p


However the share price has been progressing painfully at best.
Well, at least the NAV is safely holding above 300, which is already something.

The ex-dividend date was announced recently, same as usual.
I know "progressive" dividends are a gimmick for many an investment trust, but it would be nice to see a bit of change, even a mediocre 1% uptick from 1.875 to 1.9, would cheer things up.

[vacendak] 09/8/2018 20:54

This one is counter intuitive. It describes itself as value investing, is classified as "flexible investment" (whatever that means)... but it brings in more in dividend yield than most of the self described income stock.

SpectoAcc likes to quip about it, but it does act as an income stock.

The problem with the NAV is that F&C is paid to estimate it once a week. Very few of the UIL Ltd are Level 1, i.e. widely traded; most is Level 2 or 3. So the NAV calculation is kind of voodoo. I believe it is intrisically even higher than stated.

Right now the engine for the NAV seems to be AfterPay-Touch. Resolute also seems pretty confident with the Syama mine, low cost, potential for heavy automation, etc. UIL Ltd has a lot of Resolute, directly and indirectly through Zeta.

Gold is in the doldrums at the moment, things can only improve on that front... well I hope.

[ceaserxzy] 09/8/2018 20:06

Thanks Vacendak.

I have been accumulating this share over a year now, starting from about 155p, in my SIPP and my ISA. My latest buy was last week at 179.95 p.

Things I like about this share are NAV performing ahead of the share price meaning value getting better and better, an over 4% dividend, regular multiple director purchases, diversification from UK market. I will hold as long as all these are still valid but will trade some if discounts ever narrows down to mid 20%as it is alarge position in my accounts.

Good luck to all holders.

[vacendak] 08/8/2018 20:43

@ceaserxy
Yep, but this one goes up in big bursts, then either drops for no reason or stagnates forever (lot of debt/leverage if one counts the ZDPs as debt, as they should)... then climbs up again, rinse and repeat.

The last bout of fever was in 2016, likely due to Resolute. Then Resolute had some hiccups and we never saw 200p with UIL Ltd. I remember one of my divi being reinvested at 196p back then.

Anyway, if you are in it for the long game, welcome to the club. If you plan to stay for a few months, good luck with timing the exit. Oh and the spread can get nasty at times. :)

[costax1654x] 08/8/2018 20:31

Is a new listed company BigDISH,next JustEat,small mcap,huge customer expansion in Asia coming to UK.Ex JustEat Ceo,Ex play.com Ceo,app is on AIS and google,offering discounts at restaurants up to 70%.Brilliant story.It will be a few baggers soon

[ceaserxzy] 08/8/2018 19:54

NAV up 10% in a month, now near record level, really impressive performance. This is looking really good value at this price.

[vacendak] 08/8/2018 13:34

The result of the trial is news, but about old news with regards to the deed for AssetCo:


Since the directors were found guilty of lying to the auditors, I guess AssetCo is not getting any money from those auditors.

According to the website, UIL Ltd hold about 20% of the company:


It says ICM, but I think they mean UIL Ltd.

[vacendak] 02/8/2018 21:20

Resolute mining director, very enthusiastic about Syama.



What he says sounds good, especially on costs.
The problem remains that Syama is located in Mali, cannot do much about the security/stability issue.

Syama is likely to be heavily automated due to the ease of extraction.

And another video about PCF.
UIL Ltd has a lot of it through Somers.