Ft Tre Discussion Threads

[praipus] 08/12/2011 15:59

A trader can short through Carbon futures or CFD or spreadbet or shorting the CARB ETF..

[jezza123] 08/12/2011 15:49

I have to say I agree edwardt - my questions were really to see if narindg has the first clue of what he is up to or if he is simply rolling the dice and hoping he will come up trumps - on the issue of 'hedging' I don't know how you think that is the case, how does someone hedge CERS (there is no short market is there?)

[edwardt] 08/12/2011 15:21

well -let's face it more informed people re the share holder list have lost their shirt so i say good luck to narindg = you may well double that money in a week but if you do, i suggest you sell into strength! i still contend that they are half hedged so all the value left is the private equity book if cer price goes to zero. good luck all

[jezza123] 08/12/2011 15:15

fine - but you still haven't told me why - what 'calcs' are you basing your decision on? Other than a punt off the back of a share that has fallen heavily on the day...

[narindg] 08/12/2011 15:01

for your info I have just bought at 18.75 -

[jezza123] 08/12/2011 14:43

p.s. even worse is the total silence from the board at TRE - this share has lost 25% of its value in a day - and yet no comments at all.

[stemis] 08/12/2011 14:41

The Group's weighted average CER acquisition price is €6.71 per CER, so although the NAV attributable to carbon is probably now not much higher than zero, there should be no real net liability for undelivered CERs.

However they probably don't have the money to sit on CERs waiting for better prices or sell forward because the exchange market requires that counterparties provide cash collateral against forward contracts up until delivery.

[jezza123] 08/12/2011 14:32

being someone who has been on ADVFN boards over the years - one thing that has increasingly struck me is how much in the last few years the numbers of posters who simply write things like "this share is going down" or vice versa, with no evidence, explanation or otherwise for these comments (other than perhaps they have just bought or gone short) has really increased - as have the 'trolls' who just write offensive stuff. I have to admit this sign of the times does worry me, since I think increasingly the more peripheral markets (like AIM) will be attracting less and less informed investors.

[stemis] 08/12/2011 14:31

I'm here to be persuaded...

[narindg] 08/12/2011 14:30

I will be here and if you dont see 25p very quickly then you win

[narindg] 08/12/2011 14:29

guys if you want to miss this opportunity thats fine..

[jezza123] 08/12/2011 14:24

well as I mentioned the current price of carbon seems to be going up today.... so it could be that there is something else even worse about to be revealed.

[stemis] 08/12/2011 14:22

What are the current prices of CERs?

I don't see how the worse case scenario of insolvency can be factored in.

[jezza123] 08/12/2011 14:21

LOL - I have done some calculations, as you can see from the previous posts - and the reality is this company could (in a worst case scenario) be worth bankrupted by their CER obligations.

what 'calcs' have you done, and can you share them?

[narindg] 08/12/2011 14:17

well it has improved in the last 2min.. to start with and then do some calcs and you will see .. fear has brought this company down..

[jezza123] 08/12/2011 14:14

really narindg? - and on what basis do you make that judgement?

[narindg] 08/12/2011 14:07

they will bounce from here... worse case scenario well factored in

[jezza123] 08/12/2011 14:04

p.s. the way things are going today, it wouldn't surprise me if these shares will be shortly suspended.

[jezza123] 08/12/2011 14:03

yes this is the problem - and the amount they are probably committed to buy is more than the cash they have - meaning the company is in big trouble in the event of a worse case scenario.... but given the carbon market is bouncing today, it may be that the issues are no longer linked to carbon credits. In any case, the market in this share is so illiquid that all you need to do if have a big holder seriously reducing their stake and the price will be trashed - which I think is what is happening today.

[stemis] 08/12/2011 13:34

Isn't the problem that they have fixed price commitments to buy CERs which are now worthless?

[narindg] 08/12/2011 13:06

wonder where it is going to park it self

[edwardt] 08/12/2011 13:01

ok jezza but if they have hedged half their exposure on carbon which i am led to believe, then surely the worst case scenario is that this wipes the cash and you are left with the pe portfolio which may well not be worth 37p ..... who knows! One thing is for sure, i am totally never going to invest a green investment ever again!

[narindg] 08/12/2011 12:45

what is going on with this co?/ boy