Stanley Gibbons Share Discussion Threads

[clocktower] 15/11/2021 08:30

Todays news gives SGI a share of future profits of the platform as well.

Far from a flop, as far as SGI are concerned, as they have the stamp to display and carry no risk.

[ternian] 13/11/2021 02:07

This is a major flop. Which is no surprise.

They have sold appx 10,000 shares with nearly 30000 to go(and appx. 40000 additionally held by SG - not sold), and we are on day 3/4? Yawn. Any other platform would have sold out in mere minutes if not seconds.

Shircore's latest plopcast on AllAboutStamps shows just how little clue he had about this space, waking up one morning and having a Google epiphany. And while Showpiece has now changed it's tune from "legal ownership" to "beneficial ownership", Shircore still manages to incorrectly tell people they own a part of the stamp. LOL

[jasdan] 12/11/2021 22:05

Yawn!

What’s the point?

[clocktower] 12/11/2021 13:08

No shocks - just a steady improvement expected jasdan.

Slowly, slowly.

[jasdan] 12/11/2021 12:12

Nevertheless, it all should make for positive news when they issue their trading update later this month.

Are shareholders in for the shock of a positive update for the first time in years?

[clocktower] 12/11/2021 11:45

jasdan - Do not assume anything - "the impression" - just deal with facts.

Phoenix owns it - until such time as SG sells it (by agreement as set out) but terms can be altered by agreement - I expect with Phoenix etc, if SG had the funds to pay Phoenix for the retained portions.

However with around 10,000 pieces already sold Phoenix has had say around £800,000.00 returned already.

I should have added - 51% is too be sold (hopefully) jasdan only 49% retained (for now I guess)

[jasdan] 12/11/2021 11:28

Clock, note your comments but the issue is how the 51% is retained.

the impression on the Showpiece site is that a transaction has arisen to enable 49,288 to be bought so far by over 1000 owners. If so, that means title has passed for those fractions which in turn makes one query who in your comments now owns the 49% - SG or Phoenix? SG do not have the funding to buy 49% so logically it must be Phoenix, therefore that 49% must equate to extra funds for Showpiece otherwise when SG sell the 49% later on, they will not have bought it.

So, is it still a liability or asset on their balance sheet?

[clocktower] 12/11/2021 11:07

Right lets get this right - 49,288 pieces owned - 30.712 available.

SG retains 49% of 80,000 = 39,200 or there about - so just over 10,000 sold to date.




"Also in keeping with the concept of democratisation, Stanley Gibbons do not aim to retain a majority stake in the stamp and therefore will make 51% of the pieces in the 1c Magenta available for general sale."

"We plan to provide a marketplace before June 2022 through which collectors will be able to purchase/sell pieces of their Showpieces amongst each other."

[jasdan] 12/11/2021 03:44

I think none of us will be surprised when we find out that this is the first of many such deals.

Expect a Mauritius offer next or perhaps a plate 77 offer....

[gbjbaanb] 12/11/2021 02:24

Makes a lot of sense, buy an artwork of some sort for £1m, sell shares in it to the public for more than £1m, use it as an advertising piece and eventually either sell it for more than £1m to some rich dude who wants to store it in a warehouse somewhere for tax reasons.

Can only see stamps being more popular than this due to the nature of collectors. I wonder if they will buy another stamp and repeat the process?

[ternian] 11/11/2021 21:44

"Almost 50,000 bought by 1000 people" - only about 10,000 (1000 people). SG is holding onto the rest. So anyone thinking they have almost paid this debt off is completely misguided.

As much as people keep referring to selling the shares, Showpiece has specifically stated YOU CANNOT SELL YOUR SHARES. You can only trade them. So there is ZERO ability to grow your share's value.

This is part of the problem. People bought into this without doing their research - this is not like, say, Rally. It's far different. So, if you think your investment will mimic other trading platforms, you haven't done your research.

[jasdan] 11/11/2021 18:57

I think you’ll find they were ultra conservative in this new venture because there was such a negative position for them after the investment guarantees scheme pre 2016 went bang and almost brought down the entire company. Old memories die hard as they say, and the sheer thought of any repetition of that PR disaster has made them act far more conservatively now. This is a much more professional effort that should, in due course, be enormously rewarding for shareholders.

[ijamlon] 11/11/2021 18:20

I love this board, high passions on both sides of the debate! Personally I'm a fan and think there's at least a chance it could work out and have a long-term turnaround. But I also agree with some of the points made about implementation. Given the massive investment, long lead time and grand vision behind it, why is it such a basic platform? They have missed a trick. With an NFT there would at least have been the possibility of some frenzied upside around a very hot concept, and windfall gains for the company and investors. This approach seems a little more staid and not quite the springboard I'd hoped for. Did they rush towards the end because of the looming Penny Black auction that threatened to make the Mag the second most valuable stamp?

[wapit] 11/11/2021 15:43

A punt, well if you like a gamble then join the club as I've punted & now own 10 pieces+. If this does take off then they will do it for other rarer stamps which will in turn benefit the SGI share price.Others will agree or disagree but I'll see how it pans out over the next 12 months. 49,132 now sold.Now

[shonep] 11/11/2021 14:55

Almost 50,000 bought by 1000 people. So thats 5mil in the bank that wasnt there last week. As a novel fund raising exercise against assets its not bad and worth punt. Or do you think im missing something.

[clocktower] 11/11/2021 13:26

At least it has made the thread busy jasdan - :-) I suspect some of the posters on here have also recently purchased shares in SGI as they wait to reap the rewards this stamp will bring to SG.

It took time but the penny will sink in when it becomes apparent how all owners will benefit.

[jasdan] 11/11/2021 13:24

There are incentives on the website that get invoked if buyers buy a certain quantity of the fractions. Seems to be very popular.

Of course it will become an asset on the balance sheet once its paid off which could make quite a marked difference to SG's valuation.

[philmiboots] 11/11/2021 13:18

....which means that the 1041 "existing collectors", on average, must have bought about 9.5 pieces each.

Many of the buys were for 1 piece so some individuals must have bought significant numbers - ? 100 to get their "exclusive replica" - on ebay shortly?

[ternian] 11/11/2021 13:05

So 39,200 pieces automatically went to SG for them to sit on indefinitely.

Meaning 9889 have been sold to investors for a appx total of £890,000 in which they got a digital certificate.

;)

[jasdan] 11/11/2021 13:02

Conspiracy theories abound.

The truth is out there.....

[ternian] 11/11/2021 12:48

"No. Consistent with the concept of democratisation, Stanley Gibbons want to make this opportunity available to all, however, as the world’s leading stamp dealer they also want to retain a meaningful economic interest in the 1c Magenta for the foreseeable future.

Also in keeping with the concept of democratisation, Stanley Gibbons do not aim to retain a majority stake in the stamp and therefore will make 51% of the pieces in the 1c Magenta available for general sale.

Additionally, Stanley Gibbons will not vote on any buyout offer made for the stamp thus allowing the individual owners to decide, as per the terms of purchase, whether to accept an offer or not."

I am not aware of any other fractional platform where the trustee and legal owner hold 40% of the available shares. Anyone provide insight here?

[magpie52] 11/11/2021 12:47

Philmiboots

Thank you! I thought Gibbons were selling all of the pieces. You've explained perfectly why Showpiece appeared to be making a big success of the sale this morning.

[ternian] 11/11/2021 12:38

"Additionally, Stanley Gibbons will not vote on any buyout offer made for the stamp thus allowing the individual owners to decide, as per the terms of purchase, whether to accept an offer or not."

While partially true, this is not complete. SG will decide on what offer is presented to stakeholders, then offer it to stakeholders to buy. As no one can sell their shares, this means you will be waiting "indefinitely" for SG to make a decision on an offer they want (its also undefined as what they constitute a reasonable offer).

In the original loan contract, it was always Phoenix who would make the ultimate approval of whether or not an offer should be accepted. I haven't seen any changes to this (but happy if anyone has newer documents). Again, this is different from the story peddled by Showpiece/SG/Phoenix in which any offer will be voted on by shareholders...

[ternian] 11/11/2021 12:32

Sorry, Jasdan - I don't agree with you.

The terms of the sale changed at the last minute.

"...in order to facilitate fractional ownership, the previous chattel mortgage held over the stamp by the group's majority shareholder Phoenix SG (PSG), a company controlled by PAMP, was being replaced by a fixed charge security over the proportion of the stamp in which the company had beneficial interest."

Phoenix lost their asset as part of the last minute change to allow fractional ownership. Phoenix loaned SG ALL the money to pay the debt(£6.2m). Whilst Phoenix held the asset, they had a guarantee against the loan (thus no interest for 5years with possible extension). Now that the stamp legally is owned by SG, the exposure is far greater. SG do not have enough money to satisfy the debt should the venture go under.

All proceeds from this investment scheme will go back to Phoenix. It is only in Phoenix's interest to reduce their risk by increasing the amount of shares bought, so they can recover any risk under the new loan agreement.

[philmiboots] 11/11/2021 12:22

Theory 2:

At 9.00am today the "owned" number went up from around 9,440 to 48,756 pieces. The difference being very close to 50% of the total in pieces and value.

Perhaps Showpiece/Phoenix/Gibbons are holding onto 51% to maintain overall "control" of what might happen in the future. ie they are only ever going to sell 49% to "the public".

I rest my case.

edit: Just spotted on the Showpiece page - A proportion will be retained indefinitely by Stanley Gibbons. See FAQ's for more details.

Are Stanley Gibbons intending to sell all 80,000 pieces?
No. Consistent with the concept of democratisation, Stanley Gibbons want to make this opportunity available to all, however, as the world’s leading stamp dealer they also want to retain a meaningful economic interest in the 1c Magenta for the foreseeable future.

Also in keeping with the concept of democratisation, Stanley Gibbons do not aim to retain a majority stake in the stamp and therefore will make 51% of the pieces in the 1c Magenta available for general sale.

Additionally, Stanley Gibbons will not vote on any buyout offer made for the stamp thus allowing the individual owners to decide, as per the terms of purchase, whether to accept an offer or not.


Just got my %'s mixed up, 49% Gibbons (39,200), 51% "us" (40,800), LOL!