Sirius Minerals Investors - SXX

Sirius Minerals Investors - SXX

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Stock Name Stock Symbol Market Stock Type Stock ISIN Stock Description
Sirius Minerals Plc SXX London Ordinary Share GB00B0DG3H29 ORD 0.25P
  Price Change Price Change % Stock Price Last Trade
0.00 0.0% 5.49 00:00:00
Open Price Low Price High Price Close Price Previous Close
5.49 5.49
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kreature: Re today's BearCast ....Yes investors made their own decisions to become shareholders, and sure, no-one was strong-armed into becoming a shareholder However, I think some may say that investors were deliberately misguided into making bad decisions, eg. via polished youtube videos making unproven claims, such as those in the tomatoes video. Sometimes 10 promotional videos per month, perhaps helping investors to make bad decisions to buy based on fantasy, and giving them a false sense of security. Were those offtake agreements either bogus or exaggerated? Wouldn't the company or someone be liable for shareholder losses if it deliberately misled its investors, or encouraged them to buy while at the same time it had other less favourable plans ? Personally I'd be looking to see if investors were deliberately misled into making bad decisions. I would not be placing all of the blame on the investor. Whether they were cheated here or not, I don't know, but I'd be collectively looking to find out via a lawyer. Needless to say, I still don't believe this will ever be a salty rocks mine. imo - atb
vwcaddy: Poll feedback @ 5.30pm Sunday - 1 Mar 20 As has been mentioned, it is quite clear so far from the poll carried out on the two Facebook pages that the majority of retail investors on here are voting ‘against’;. Combined summary below. There should be minimal double counting. 215 out of a total 240 responders are voting against (90%). Of these 10 are attending the meeting. What does this all mean? Who knows but it should be interesting on Tuesday? Full poll standings so far are below: How many investors are attending the meeting on Tuesday and are you voting ‘for’ or ‘against’; the resolutions? Please indicate as appropriate below if you are happy to. I am putting this on both FB pages so only vote on one page please. Trying to get a feel for numbers on Tuesday: No I am not attending but I have voted ‘against’; - 205 votes I did not vote ­- 21 votes Yes I am attending and I am voting ‘against’; - 10 votes No I am not attending but I have voted ‘for’ - 2 votes Yes I am attending and I am voting ‘for’ - 1 vote Don’t care either way - 1 vote Yes I am attending but I am ‘undecidedR17; - 0 votes Total votes cast: - 240 votes
vwcaddy: Poll on Facebook pagesToday 12:55 I have added a poll with options below to the Serious Minerals and Sirius Minerals FB pages. There maybe a little double counting but I have requested you only fill in one or other if you access both pages. So far, after around 2 hours, 90 investors have taken part - 85 say they are voting 'against', 2 are voting 'for', and 3 are not voting. If you are a member of either please take part as I think it should be a good indicator. Also gives an idea of how many will be going on Tuesday. Poll is as follows: How many investors are attending the meeting on Tuesday and are you voting ‘for’ or ‘against’; the resolutions? Please indicate as appropriate below if you are happy to. I am putting this on both FB pages so only vote on one page please. Trying to get a feel for numbers on Tuesday: - Yes I am attending and I am voting ‘against’; - Yes I am attending and I am voting ‘for’ - Yes I am attending but I am ‘undecidedR17; - No I am not attending but I have voted ‘against’; - No I am not attending but I have voted ‘for’ - I did not vote
kenmitch: amaretto Threads like this one are a key reason for so many losing so heavily. It’s been the clueless convincing the clueless. Your posts shows zero understanding of what will happen if the no vote wins. Shareholders will be left with shares worth nothing. No way will they continue to have a stake in Sirius. Your stake will be gone for good. The project might well still go ahead and for sake of local economy and the many whose jobs are hanging in the balance let’s hope it does, if Anglo buy Sirius off the Administrators instead. They are likely to get it cheaper that way as they won’t have to pay Sirius investors 5.5p a share. So investors have a simple choice. Vote yes for 5.5p a share and project to continue. Vote no to get nothing and put the whole project in jeopardy. The selfish will still vote no. Those thinking of others and their jobs and the local economy will put their anger aside and vote yes. As for pazzuzu’s rant! Might make you feel better getting it off your chest. But Chris Fraser will do fine if the project goes ahead and he is then employed probably on big pay and bonus payments etc by Anglo. And even if it doesn’t go ahead they could well want his expertise anyway for other projects. So voting no to spite him without giving a thought to what it means for so many others including current Sirius employees and the local area is just selfish indulgence.
johnwise: Sirius Minerals bidder Anglo American upgraded by Barclays Capital The investment banking arm of the high street lender has moved to ‘overweight’ on the stock in the group, raising its price target 40% to £28 a share in the process Anglo American is in the midst of a messy £404mln takeover of punters’ favourite Sirius Minerals, which ran into funding problems last year. The bid, which had been expected to go through on the nod, is now the focus of interest from Odey Asset Management, which reckons Anglo has the scope to increase its bid by 40% to 7p a share. Odey, and other dissident investors, could block the deal.
kenmitch: If enough small investors vote no, then the whole project could be dead with huge costs in lost jobs and lost opportunities in a region that so needs this project to succeed. There’s also a chance that by voting no investors will get nothing instead of 5.5p and Anglo American then getting Sirius at less cost to them. Investors who believed the hype were so misguided. The shares were very high risk until funding successful. They will be equally misguided if they vote no now and end up with nothing at all. That unfortunately is their blunt choice.
kenmitch: It’s a terrible shame that so many locals invested far more than they could afford to lose in Sirius. It should have been made much clearer to novice investors that it was a hugely risky undertaking, at huge cost, and with no revenues or profits for many years. But too late to do anything about that now, and imo a class action has near zero chance of succeeding. Shares do go bust, including occasionally FTSE100 shares, and unlucky shareholders end up with nothing. BUT! All might not be lost with Sirius. Anglo American is a very big multi national FTSE 100 Company. Anglo won’t understand, but need to be told, what a disaster their 5.5p cash bid is for the many locals who invested at far higher prices, and suggestions need to be made to Anglo about what they might be able to do to help those investors eventually recoup some, or even possibly all, of their losses in time. e.g as suggested by Daily Mail City Editor yesterday, they could issue a special Sirius share. And instead of 5.5p cash, offer current Sirius shareholders to use what is left of their Sirius investment to buy those instead of taking the cash. In time, when it becomes clear that the project will be a success that new Sirius share could do very well. Yes it would mean getting nothing now instead of 5.5p a share, and it will mean waiting a long time to get a much better return, but for any who can say now that they have lost nearly all heir money anyway, in for a penny and in for a pound and give it a go, it is a possible alternative. Another option, and this could be offered on top by Anglo, could be for Anglo to issue for free, to existing shareholders, warrants giving the right to buy those new Sirius shares, at say, 5p at any time, until long dated (2025 or even longer) expiry date. Then if the new Sirius share is say at 30p those warrants would give the right to buy the shares at 5p and then the investor can immediately sell them at 30p to realise a big 25p a share profit. The above is NOT All pie in the sky thinking. Warrants used to be very common and huge gains could be made with them when the underlying share did well. Ideas like these and alternatives that might also be workable make far more sense following up than forlorn hope of class action getting anywhere. Finally one very good thing is that at least now there is a very high chance the mine will go ahead. Great for the local economy and for the UK too. And if people don’t like this post at least it’s an attempt to help in contrast to the objectionable posts by the likes of Turvart. Why are people so nasty?
the millipede: "What’s the top 3 to 5 lessons to be learned from SXX?" I think one lesson that should appear in everybody's top 5 is: never take the company's word for anything. The number of people on Facebook and LSE complaining about all the "promises" made by CF and other board members suggests an almost complete lack of independent research on the part of some of you. Research is not emailing SXX investor relations for an update, or chatting with other small investors who agree with you on bulletin boards or even reading their back catalogue of stock exchange announcements, necessary though that is. It is among other things (1) emailing respected and independent agronomists to find out what they make of Sirius' product and plans (2) contacting the Parks Authority for their views on the likelihood of planning, and (3) Getting independent thoughts, from city experts, on the financing situation. It also means looking at the wider small cap mining space to see how Sirius compares, not just in its business plans but in its valuation. Again there seems a distinct lack of awareness or interest in this kind of essential compare and contrast. Whereas, having looked around, I think it has been obvious for years that Sirius stock was wildly overvalued. I am hardly alone is believing this and plenty of others have spent far more time on here than I have, trying to point investors in the right direction. What is especially sad really, is that most small cap mining or exploration stocks fail along the way. But it looks like Sirius will succeed. The mine will be built, the market for polyhalite is (almost certainly) there, created by Sirius itself, planning hurdles overcome, and now a big backer in the form of AA who can provide the finance needed. This is what success looks like in the small cap mining space. And shareholders are still getting shafted! There is simply no reason for anyone to invest in any "exploration" firm with no income and no profits any more because, on the range of plausible outcomes, this is at the top end of the scale. On the stock market, we are the food, ultimately and that is not going to change. IMVHO get out while you still can. HTH
the millipede: "The clever have been short this thing all the way down to 3p. There are no 'clever' investors who are long. The ones who have stayed long, me included, have been wrong." Hindsight is a wonderful thing but nonetheless this is probably the truest thing ever written on a share bulletin board. But the question is, where does this company go from here and what does that mean for investors? I think this morning we have the answer. They go for a smaller capex to get to first polyhalite more quickly and derisk the project by generating cash. At this point funding the deep shafts should become easier and there seems no reason why the full value of this project should not eventually win out. It is worth remembering Sirius already had $400m dollars of stage two funding so some people were prepared to offer the finance, even for the large capex version of this project that stalled over the summer. It therefore seems highly likely to me that 600m debt will be raised soon for what is now a lower risk project. The bear case here has been unravelling for a decade. We thought Sirius was on the rocks over the commercial viability of poly4 (I even have the emails from a very respected agronomist to "prove" it); we thought Sirius would fail over planning permission, heck many of us even thought they overpaid for York Potash back in 2011. But each time CF just bats it away and I think he has shown he will do that again here with what, admittedly, was the biggest risk of all: finance. If long investors can admit they got this wrong in holding down to 3p, I think it is probably time for bears to give up here and see the long term value, and likely returns to stock investors. The dilution suggested in recent posts simply will not happen. There is every chance someone buying stock today will make a lot of money; even a decent chance long term holders, who might have bought in at far higher levels, will recoup their losses. Move along guys. It is getting embarrassing.
mirabeau: Keep diggingSirius Minerals, Britain’s first deep mine in decades, is in a hole After bond investors got cold feet, the mine faces the prospect of closure before it has even opened Oct 17th 2019 SNEATONTHORPE SINKING DEEP mine shafts is hard, says Graham Clarke, operations director at Sirius Minerals, a company digging the first properly deep mine—a mile down—in Britain for over 40 years. At a certain depth, earth movement can cause trouble, or an aquifer needs sealing. One of Sirius’s shafts has descended 120 metres beneath the North York Moors on the way to a 260m-year-old, 2.69bn-tonne fertiliser deposit. Mr Clarke is surprised to have got so far. “Everyone said we would never get planning permission, then when we did they said we wouldn’t get our first funding.” The naysayers may yet win. Last month the FTSE-250-listed firm cancelled a $500m junk bond issue. It would have unlocked a $2.5bn loan from JPMorgan Chase, or enough in all to finish the £3.1bn ($4bn) project. Now Sirius could run out of money. Investors got spooked by market conditions, Brexit and the risks of shaft-sinking. Sirius also let it be known that the government in August refused a request to guarantee $1bn of bonds in 18 months’ time, even though state backing via export credit agencies is common in project finance. A challenge for Sirius, as well as the shafts, is getting its product, polyhalite, widely accepted by farmers. It is a speciality potash that is chloride-free (an advantage, since chlorine tolerance varies across crops). It has more nutrients that plants need than the two mainstream products, sulphate of potash and muriate of potash. Produced at scale, polyhalite has potential to disrupt the global fertiliser industry. That explains why existing powerful players, such as EuroChem, a Russian-owned giant with revenues of $5.6bn, have been talking down polyhalite, presumably adding to bond investors’ worries. Nevertheless, Sirius has struck multi-year sales agreements with customers to supply in total 13.8m tonnes a year at the peak. That will claim most of the mine’s initial production capacity. One is a ten-year deal announced on October 11th to supply polyhalite to Muntajat, a giant Qatari petrochemicals firm. But Sirius’s current funding—it has raised over £1.5bn—will run out by March. It has slowed operations; eventually it would have to fill in and cap its shafts and close off the mile that it has already dug of a 23-mile-long tunnel to carry the polyhalite to Teesside to be processed and shipped off as “Poly4” to fertiliser firms around the world. Never before has a mine been joined to a long tunnel—the design avoids unsightly railway tracks over the moors. At full capacity, Sirius’s positive impact on the local economy could be substantial. The company plans to ship £2.5bn-worth of polyhalite a year at full production and send an annual £470m to the exchequer. It employs 1,200, mostly local, workers and will need 2,800 more. In Teesside its tunnel cuts into the earth from an old ICI site near shut-down steelworks; local politicians such as Ben Houchen, Tees Valley’s mayor, are backers. So are around 85,000 retail investors, many from Yorkshire and the north-east, who piled into Sirius shares over the past eight years. Many lost out when Sirius’s bond issue was cancelled. One reason the government declined to back the financing—in addition to its fears about the risk to the taxpayer—was that politicians reckon there are other funding options, say people close to the firm. Sirius is to come up with alternative plans by the end of the month. One option could be a strategic partner with a hefty balance-sheet. Given the push that the government has put behind boosting the north, it might not let the project fail. Even for believers in Sirius, however, the light at the end of the tunnel is getting hard to make out. ■
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