Ok 2XS as we are both coming from this in different directions I was perhaps over zealous. Come Oct 2026 Magna could just not convert, but highly unlikely, as the whole point of the convertible was to get an equity position, otherwise it would have gone for a straight loan secured. Anyway its over 2 years away, by which time hopefully the price will be 11p+, as the outcome and key players of DMS etc will be very transparent by then. |
So 2XS, how do you think unsecure convertible loan notes works? From what I know from the the company, it would have to breach one of he condition ie takeover, dilution via an equity raise. SEE has been very transparent about it |
This is incorrect and not how convertibles work. If you are unsure then check with SEE's CFO and he will confirm. |
 For nvhtd and ss2 directly taken from SEE's audited accounts- Unsecured Convertible notes. On 4October 2022, Seeing Machines received funding of US$47,500,000 from Magna International in the form of a non-transferable 4-year convertible note maturing in October 2026 (the “Convertible Note”). The Convertible Note can be drawn down in two tranches across the 4-year term. The Convertible Note has an all-in yield of 8%, inclusive of fees. The Convertible Note contains standard covenants, and anti-dilution provisions. The interest due at the end of the facility can be paid in cash or converted into equity at Seeing Machines' election. The first tranche of US$30,000,000, was drawn on 5 October 2022 and the second tranche of US$17,500,000 was drawn down on 27 June 2023. The liability portion of tranche 1 and 2 are valued at amortised cost in accordance with AASB 9Financial Instruments (“AASB 9”) and have effective interest rates of 13.03% and 10.03% respectively. Magna may elect to convert the principal and at Seeing Machines’ election, interest outstanding under the Convertible Note at any time during its term, up to a maximum of 349,650,350 shares which, when added to Magna’s existing shareholding in the Company, will represent approximately 9.9% of the fully diluted share capital of the Company. The conversion will be at a price of 11 British pence per share. THESE NOTES ARE UNSECURED AND CONVERTIBLE meaning the investor does not have a claim on any company assets if the loan is not paid back and thus has no choice but to convert if they want to protect its investment.
As for todays announcement my take. SEE have gained some IP (why would Valeo continue on their own, when SEE has better IP); gained an excellent partnership/collaboration with a leading Tier 1; an established presence (office) in EU and a couple of clts. For the amount of business this deal is likely to make, I think a down payment of US1m and US1m in a years time looks good. The US4m on meeting certain business outcomes (ie awarded biz from Veleo and acquired IP being sound ) and in 5yrs time a possible further US4m (If all goes to plan worth paying) I can imagine Valeo has spent considerably more than this on Asaphus. Sensible deal IMHO |
You just know this is heading further down, and I'm a holder |
And down goes the price...... 🙄 |
This technology is the future and will certainly be required for all commercial vehicles one day.
SEE now working with big players in Magna , Valeo and Caterpillar .... and remember also Collins in aerospace.
Revenue and cash to equal or exceed expectations too.
Its like a snowball, rolling and slowly getting bigger and bigger. Profitability will be the last phase of a new tech but it will come.
I'm sure that the above 11p will be exceeded before too long.
Its certainly not going bust ..... so i'm slowly building a good stake. |
Great acquisition with little cash outflow & consolidating our relationship with Valeo-another industry major.
our initial 3 year deal with Magna expires on 30/6/25 & discussions may well be underway about an extension to that deal-which could include Magna writing off some of the loan or amending the terms in a mutually beneficial way.The VW deal alone justifies that relationship as once all of their 7.5mill (currently) annual prodiction includes our DMS/OMS they will be generating substantial profits-as will our good selves. |
Magna and now Valeo .... and a $16m upfront payment from Caterpillar ... the industry certainly wants this technology. More positive news.
I'm very bullish on this. |
Exactly right re tye CLN. Time is becoming a factor and the cln will become a drag on the share price unless they can demonstrate growth and to drive the share price higher.
Also this deal announced today only goes to prove that there's competition working under the radar to take market share away from us. This company was already working with oem's in Europe and China.
The larger more well know dms suppliers are not being open about the competition.
GSR kicked in yesterday and there's no new contracts off the back of it. The time has come for an explanation from the company about the 'missing' oem's and why GSR hasn't seen an explosion of new contracts both in auto and fleet. |
No you have read it correctly. It is their option whether to accept cash or shares for the principal amount. Clearly if the share price is significantly below 11p they will demand cash. |
Strange acquisition. Odd that after the hundreds of millions developing the product they still need to go elsewhere for further development. I thought it was an oven ready product. Anyway should be positive. |
Hi, new to the forums. I saw below there was several mentions of Magna not being able to request repayment of their convertible note plus interest instead of taking the shares at 11p. Why would that be the case? Why would they take shares at 11p instead of just taking their cash and then buying them off the market at 4.5p like they are available now say if the share price remains and getting 2.5 times their holding? I re-read the announcement and could see nothing in there that states they have to take the shares instead of requesting the cash back? Thinking I must have missed something! |
First half of 2024 over and still nothing new in terms of contracts. Six days to the new GSR and not a single Gen 3 contract. These guys have some explaining to do. |
Why is VW going to Rivian EV Moters for help over it's on board computer. I Have a top of the range VW iD3 and the camera will see a blade of grass or even a butterfly and before you know it the brakes come on. Even when it snows you've got to watch yourself because the brakes slam on. Pretty scary stuff. I have taken it back to VW but they don't have a clue. The onboard cruise control is not much cop. It doesn't cruise at a set speed. The speed can change when you drive . So 1 minute you're driving at 30 the next you're driving at 60 miles per hour. With an EV car the uplift to 60 is 6 seconds which can seem quite scary. The voice control system doesn't work as it keeps clicking in on words that you haven't said. So how can seeing machines cameras work with VW. This is why 4 billion pounds was paid to get help from Rivian EV motors |
Legislation is key companys must spend and we have a good product
i would hope for more contract wins in the next few mths |
While RNS was positive on the cash injection the downside was EBITDA will be lower than market expectations. The CEO mentioned profitability in 2025 and a lower cost ratio on overhead coming 6 months. If those targets are not met I suggest the CEO needs to stop making promises he can not keep.
The Vested options from 2019 roll on to 2026 shows what the CEO is like. He did not let them go but rolled over. Most CEOs if they did not meet those targets would generally let the Vested options go. Let's see what he does with 30 June 2024 options.
It is just an observation of the CEO. Seeing Machines the company has a good product, good partnerships, and Legislation making the Company well positioned.
Happy Investing |
We are all entitled to our opinions ,including nvhltd & we may not always like those opinions as they don’t suit our agenda .This weeks RNS was fantastic news in respect of the Caterpillar extension & clearly less positive in respect of the margin warning mix & the fact that the can will need to be kicked down the road for a while longer .However Paul reiterated cash flow break even in FY 25 & there remains much excellemt news to hopefully emerge over the coming months -so I view this week as a minor set back & for those eternal optimist yet another buying opportunity & I hope that Directors will take advantage of this hopefully temporary blip to add to their substantial holdings |
It is important that you believe in your statements nvhltd, as it is just as important that no one else here agrees with you.
I think that your constant negativity about this early stage technology front runner will only serve against you on this board.
Think longer term, 2026/27/28 will this stock still be worth <11p? |
I'm good thanks. Try and focus on the company. You're either happy with the share price and progress, which I cannot fathom why you would be or you accept they aren't delivering based on their own targets / statements / objectives / SP? |
nvhltd may I recommend you sell up and get out of SEE shares if you really are that unhappy, you are just wasting your time here getting it all mixed up and frustrating yourself badly. |
I also never said Magna can demand their money back, but at or by the deadline SEE either pay them back or we dilute at 11p. That might seem great considering where the share price sits currently, but it's nothing to be happy about.
The market and the share price tells us all we need to know about progress. |
I know perfectly well that camera-based DMS isn't a requirement for the coming GSR. That's precisely the problem. A camera-based DMS isn't required until 2026 unless it's for a new vehicle type, but it doesn't stop Paul banging on about it and raising expectations that we will benefit greatly. 330,000 commercial vehicles are registered in Europe every year and a beneficial driver is landing in 2 weeks time. We were also told 20 months ago that we have PO'S for hundreds of thousands of units, but still no confirmed sales to speak of.
Tell me where I am wrong with what we've been told to expect? |
Blimey nvhitd talk about glass half empty, please get the facts correct. Magna are committed and the conversion rate gives only a small dilution.
The share price is poor but so is the AIM market in general.
Not great that they have missed Ebitda target but that sounds like a small timing difference. |
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