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[loganair] 04/9/2022 19:54

A supermarket could lower its heating and switch off all their lights when closed.

Supermarkets do not have to open 24 hours a day, they could easily open from say 06.30 to 22.00 during this winter.

[spob] 04/9/2022 19:47

A supermarket can't switch off the heating

A supermarket can't switch of the refridgeration and freezer units

A supermarket can't switch off the lights in the store and in the car park

A supermarket can't switch off all its computer and checkout systems

A supermarket can't run its charity home delivery service delivery vans on thin air


To be honest, I haven't seen many customers taking hot showers in the local pub or in the supermarket. Lol

[loganair] 04/9/2022 19:30

Energy price cap at how ever many thousand pounds is a falsehood as it is the price per Kwh that is being capped and not the total amount.

Therefore if one is a low energy user then their energy bills will still be relatively low, however if each member of a family takes 2, 30 mins hot showers a day and therefore uses a high number of Kwhs then their energy bill will be way in excess of the so call energy price cap.

[spob] 04/9/2022 19:18

The government seems totally ignorant of the scale of intervention that would be needed.

[spob] 04/9/2022 19:15

I hear many pubs will be forced to close this winter.

The rise in uncapped energy bills for busineses this winter would force them to charge £15 pounds per pint to break even.

No business can survive that without massive government intervention.


This is just one example

This will affect all busineses large and small.

[alotto] 04/9/2022 12:37

Thanks very indept. You gave me some good reading there!
That's quite true... I wouldn't like to live in a world of discounts personally. But they are gaining ground.
About the employees, they may be getting a better wage but the pace of work is inhumane, more suited for a machine

[loganair] 04/9/2022 11:58

As a pilot in one day I would fly Brussels-Istanbul-Brussels then again in the same day a second Brussels-Istanbul-Brussels = the same crew flew a 4 sector day.

On the other hand British Airways crew fly a single sector Heathrow-Istanbul, crew gets off and stays in a hotel while a second crew boards to fly Istanbul-Heathrow. A third crew boards to fly Heathrow-Istanbul, crew getting off to stay in a hotel while a fourth crew boards to fly the return Istanbul-Heathrow.

The airline I flew for, the crew flew 4 sectors, for a similar 4 sectors British Airways uses 4 sets of crew with two sets staying over night in a hotel in Istanbul.


Iberia was flying the A320, when they introduced the A321 the cabin crew said it was a different aircraft type, therefore they demanded and got pay for flying two aircraft types even though the A321 is just an elongated A320 and not a different aircraft type.

Alitalia, all crew are on a Rome contract as Rome was the start up base for the airline many moons ago, even thought 1/3 are now based out of Milan. Because of this all Milan based crew are entitled to night stop allowances and the airline had to pay for 2,500 hotel rooms in Milan even though never used by the Milan based crew.

In 1946 the only fare available to London to New York in todays money cost circa £25,000 when today a flight costs as little as £200. The legacy brand contracts of terms and conditions whether it be British Airways or Sainsbury's still tend to reflect what customers where paying decades ago whereas discounters contracts are set up to reflect passengers paying just £200 for their tickets.

Basically this is why legacy brands of any industry fail against the discounters.

[loganair] 04/9/2022 11:40

When I go into my local Sainsbury or Tesco much of the time I see the staff just standing around chatting to each other instead of filling the shelves - very low productivity of the staff.

I had a word with a store manager who said to me he could do nothing about this or if a member of staff was on the shop floor chatting on the phone.

[alotto] 04/9/2022 11:06

The big 4 need to reduce somehow the operation and administrative expenses.

[loganair] 04/9/2022 10:59

In the same way the discount airlines were set up to be discount airlines and are therefore much cheaper per passenger to run and why the legacy brand airlines struggle so much to compete with them even when they start their own discount brand such as GO for BA or the current Iberia Express, the low cost airline of Iberia - per passenger Iberia Express is still far more expensive to run than Ryanair is.

In 1990 Ryanair had just 5 aircraft, was 1/100th the size of British Airways while today it is twice the size of BA, carrying twice the number of passengers.

[alotto] 04/9/2022 10:31

What makes them more expensive to run?

[loganair] 04/9/2022 08:20

The biggest challenge for the so called big 4 legacy brand supermarkets compared to the 2 German discounters is they are circa 25% per customer more expensive to run and therefore they are effectively unable to compete on price.

[alotto] 03/9/2022 21:21

Loganair are you suggesting it is better to buy Aldi or Lidl shares (that is if they are public companies).
Lidl and Aldi are doing their best to challenge Tesco and Co., they stroke some deals with big produces like Unilever (recently I saw Magnum ice creams in Lidl).
Sainsbuy is lowering prices (with a price lock) of some of their products, products that you would't even find in Lidl or Aldi, so not really trying to compete on prices on the very same products.
I think shoppers ultimately will notice that, and combining it with the Aldi price match thing, many shoppers won't indulge much longer in discount shops.
Many discount products are rubbish btw. I bought some toilet paper in Lidl for few pence less and its much thinner than what you find in Sainsbury for almost the same price. Not to mention the dish washing liquid bought in Lidl lasted one week, can't really compare to Fairy (although the dish washing liquid in Aldi is better than Lidl's, but still not as good as Fairy, which isn't that much more expensive anyway)

[loganair] 03/9/2022 19:47

From mid 2022 to mid 2024 Aldi plans to open 100 new stores, that's approximately 1 store per week over the next two years.

This will increase Aldi's UK grocery market share by circa 1%.

[loganair] 03/9/2022 19:29

Sainsbury’s latest advertising campaign is encouraging customers to practice financial control, shop smarter and access personalized discounts in its SmartShop app.

The Sainsbury’s SmartShop app enables customers to shop, scan and check out autonomously, while the technology tracks purchases to unlock tailored product deals.

Radha Davies, brand communications director, Sainsbury’s, said: “For a customer to break their deeply-engrained shopping habits, even where there’s a compelling reason to, is difficult. Millions of Nectar customers have access to personalized prices at Sainsbury’s, and we wanted them to know about it. Using behaviorally-driven insights that focused on the ease of use, the many benefits of SmartShop in conjunction with food-focused creative has created impactful and identifiably Sainsbury’s creative.”

[loganair] 03/9/2022 19:23

Asda has agreed to acquire 132 sites from The Co-operative Group in a transaction with a cash value of £438m, as part of its growth strategy to move into the convenience market and bring Asda value to more local communities. The purchase includes 129 established, high-quality sites with a grocery retail store of between 1,500 and 3,000ft² and attached petrol filling station, and three development sites. They are located nationwide and will create a new and distinct format for Asda in the convenience market.

[muffinhead] 03/9/2022 14:02

Worst supermarket price rises revealed as grocers ‘inflate like crazy’

[muffinhead] 03/9/2022 13:45

Discounter business model will be challenged in an inflationary environment.

Lidl and ALDI rapidly came to prominence during "deflation" when German bonds were negative and cash was literally free. It was easy to discount future cash flows into the distant future. Not any more. So I expect momentum to slow.

Even Poundland regularly blows up and requires a reset.

To expect smooth sailing is naive.

I cannot imagine any capital appreciation on new or existing investment.


10 year UK government gilts are about 2.9% currently and climbing. Corporate bonds yields are higher. Far higher than the return German discounters receive for the pleasure of parking their tanks in the UK.


Cheap borrowing is drying up. The market is mature.


Profit margin on discounter total sales is about 1% which does not cover the cost of capital investment. Lidl UK made losses during Covid which can be seen on Company House records. Inflation adjusted returns are non-existent.


Would you invest in ALDI or Lidl if given a chance?

Personally, I think the Germans are idiots to continue UK expansion. Times have changed.

[loganair] 02/9/2022 13:23

As I posted many moons ago, when Aldi/Lidl combined share was no more than 9%, I thought by 2025 their combined market share would be between 20% and 25%.

Today their combined market share is now well over 16% and increasing by circa 0.8% every year.

It seems to me reasonable to say by 2025 Aldi will be vying with ASDA for the number 3 spot while Lidl will be doing the same with Morrison for the number 5 spot which would mean Morrison in less than 5 years dropping from being the 4th largest supermarket in the UK to 6th.

[loganair] 01/9/2022 14:16

The reason I shop at the supermarket I do is because it's by far my nearest. The next nearest is a good 25 minute extra drive away = £6 in extra petrol drive away.

[bend1pa] 01/9/2022 14:00

"Aldi and Lidl make it very clear who their customer base is, it is customers who have little disposable income, customers where only the price matters..."

I'm afraid that's a myth on your part. That may have been the case a decade or so ago, but no longer. The quality at Aldi is every bit as good as what you buy at the top 3 supermarkets who have all been gradually losing market share over the years to the discounters and for good reason. Why should I pay £1.80 for a 450g tub of Onken fruit yoghurt, when I can go to Lidl and get exactly the same tasting tub of ingredients for 99p (currently).

Many of the customers I see at Aldi/Lidl don't exactly look impoverished or suffering to my eyes. I could easily afford to shop at Tesco/SBRY/MRW, but rarely do now. Just rather glad I discovered the discounters, and since my nearest supermarket happens to be a Lidl I'm happy to continue shopping there for food.

[spob] 01/9/2022 11:39

"I understand since the year 2000, the average worker in the UK, in real terms has had a 25% pay cut."


I think they will be close to 25% this year alone

If they get a 10% pay rise and inflation is over 30% this year, you have a 20% pay cut in just one year.


Dred to think the true figure over 22 years