Robinson Share Discussion Threads

[1tx] 26/8/2021 12:37

Agree with your comments re pension plan Arthur;I mentioned it because at around present value Robinson might represent an attractive takeover prospect but the scheme might put off buyers,it is a multiple size in terms of assets to Robinson so probably we are reliant on the companies own efforts to improve share price.

[castleford tiger] 26/8/2021 12:32

1TX
Why would a pension surplus put anyone off?

I have seen many companies add the surplus to assets. ( Morrisons doing that right now )

So part of the debt ( 3 million ) is actually cash owned by the company set aside for any pension contributions.
Like ALS i am relaxed with debt as its been invested in improving the business.

They will be getting extra margins now as resin price falls.

I have bought heavily this week and a few today ( all under 100p) which i am very happy about. I am more than half way to my target of 475,000 shares.

Not sure who is selling but had no trouble buying these last few days..
Bit tighter now asking 101p for 5000 sellers getting 97p

tiger

[arthur_lame_stocks] 26/8/2021 12:11

It's probably best not to include the pension surplus as an asset in the accounts as even if it proves good it is very hard for companies to get their hands on this money.

Anyone remember Lonrho?

[1tx] 26/8/2021 12:07

I think we are on about the sixth generation of Robinsons since the business has been around for circa 200 years!The remaining Robinson packaging businesses are the "stub" of the Robinson empire as in the years prior to listing in 2005 various bits including Robinson Healthcare were spun out of this business;most have I think have now been sold on to new owners by the family.Incidently Robinson PLC retains the defined benefit pension plan it has been closed to new members for around 25 years & is about £9m in surplus.Robinson has also been contributing additional amounts to an escrow account circa £3m to date which may be handed over to the fund if required or otherwise returned to Robinson if not.The £3m has been loaned back to the company on commercial terms & forms part of loans.Neither the pension surplus or escrow account are included as assets.As for family holdings a number of 3%+ holdings are disclosed are probably family.I suspect there are a number of smaller holdings.The pension plan could put off any takeovers although it might be possible to sell it on to an insurance company.

[arthur_lame_stocks] 26/8/2021 12:07

I'm more sanguine about the debt situation than some. It looks like the property sales are finally gaining traction and I expect the money from these to make at least a very large dent in the debt. I bought back in recently and will take the 5.5% yield whilst I wait for profitability to improve.

[castleford tiger] 26/8/2021 11:01

what do family own?

[charo] 25/8/2021 17:57

3rd gen always a problem.
Guy think only remaining family still in management.
Now looking after property.
New manament all marketeers and brand conscious.
How do you brand a subcontract packaging supplier.Customers have their brand not interested in Robinson brand .
Nevertheless they have a decent rep good manufacturing capability and should be making around 7/8 % on sales.
So yes negative on strategy but when shareholders demand change or an approach is made then it can prove profitable investment.
If family waits too long may be too late.

[steve3sandal] 25/8/2021 17:48

I did hold in the past and from memory they held net cash and the derelict site with a planning application so I might have had a reasonable idea. I promised not to look again after I left the building but the recent results prompted me. I was put off by the failure at the time of an expensive Polish acquisition and the fact that every time they got a contract they had to buy a new machine. The latter is the way to the poor house. The family will want their dividend whatever. They have their wish but I think they are borrowing to pay it one way or another. Now net debt,another acquisition, more debt, difficult planning. The bank will take all property proceeds and meanwhile I’m not convinced the packaging business has scale or a moat or anything to recommend it. That’s why I left. Good luck to holders but not a business or business model for me.

[castleford tiger] 25/8/2021 17:17

interesting.
You like the business but not its strategy......could you expand on that.
I am happy to see other views on this
A

[charo] 25/8/2021 16:41

I never go short.

[charo] 25/8/2021 16:40

The market reaction supports my view.I like the business but not its strategy.
Let's see what second half brings.

[castleford tiger] 25/8/2021 15:53

charo

Clearly that is your opinion.
A parcel is in the final stages that will give the 3.5m in cash.
Other parcels are going through DD and its a slow process.

I am 3 years in on a planning application for a MSA.

hxxps://www.yorkpress.co.uk/news/17689925.plans-45-million-service-area-a1-m-submitted-selby-district-council/

Planners have had the application for 2 full years. Still to be heard.

You seem very negative on RBN whats the connection?

Clearly you have a right to an opinion but " the board has over borrowed and overpaid for acquisitions " is just your opinion.

I dont share it.

Are you a holder or short?

tiger

[charo] 25/8/2021 14:54

Surplus property has proven difficult to sell .The board has over borrowed and overpaid for acquisitions.

[red ninja] 25/8/2021 12:53

CT,
Thanks

[castleford tiger] 25/8/2021 12:45

red
# in excess of 10m if it all came through. less than 3 in the accounts

tiger

[red ninja] 25/8/2021 10:51

Any one have any idea what the property portfolio might be worth :-

ie.
"The Group also has a substantial property portfolio with development potential."

I see total net assets is given as 22.472 million, but the property they are selling had a book value of 1 million, but is being sold for 3.4 million

[buywell3] 25/8/2021 08:01

Still not a good read imo

Inflationary price increases and supply problems seem to be getting too common

Debt is soon going to be a 4 letter word that will not be nice to hear imo




buywell3 24 Jun '21 - 08:26 - 661 of 684 Edit
0 2 0
RNS

Not a good read imo

[castleford tiger] 24/8/2021 22:36

ON john
They have 10 m of headroom and will make 2 m this year.
Plus sell land for 3.5 m valued at under 1m
My profit from a recent sale in HSP has started to flow in here

[zdapa] 24/8/2021 20:16

I don't know how you worked out 20p target but I used my way and got the same sort of answer.

[onjohn] 24/8/2021 19:36

Breach bank covenants

-- Net debt(1) of GBP13.7m (31/12/2020: GBP6.6m), after net capital expenditure of GBP2.0m, consideration for the Schela Plast acquisition of GBP1.4m and net debt acquired of GBP3.5m

Operational highlights

[onjohn] 24/8/2021 19:34

20p target

[bwm2] 24/8/2021 15:29

Added 10k, seemed rude not to

[castleford tiger] 23/8/2021 17:05

Panic? Where