Raven Prop P Discussion Threads

[rahosi] 25/3/2024 08:00

Reconvened AGM of the Company today. 09:30 25 March 2024 at Carey House, Les Banques, St Peter Port, Guernsey GY1 4BZ

Hopefully we'll hear the details of the re-domiciling of Raven Property Group Limited (“RPG”) from Guernsey to the Abu Dhabi Global Market financial free zone.

[ravenrussia] 24/3/2024 13:06

Yes, this was also progressing in the December update

With the move to new stock exchange...hopefully we can then see some value

Wonder how long it woukd take tore list on a new exchange

[keith95] 21/3/2024 19:43

From the update:

"Following their acquisition of the Russian business in July 2022, the Russian management team re-domiciled the entities in their Cypriot holding
company structure to the Abu Dhabi Global Market financial free zone (“ADGM”) and renamed the principal holding company Phoenix Property
Group (“Phoenix̶1;).
We also intend to re-domicile Raven Property Group Limited (“RPG”) from Guernsey to the ADGM.
A circular setting out this proposal should be issued to all shareholders later this month and sets out in more detail the necessary changes to our
memorandum and articles of association and terms of our equity instruments."

and

"A number of our shareholders have told us that they have written their shareholding to zero; we do not share their view. The underlying Phoenix
property portfolio is still market-leading and continues to perform strongly.
The executive team remains fully committed to its task."

I suspect thanks should be due and wait for the update. Moving to ADGM looks a little more promising than moving to Moscow.

[tunley] 18/3/2024 12:11

I think it was Invesco or Perpetual (they nay be the same) who sold a large holding back to Raven.
Anyway:- STemis - many thanks for your analysis, it gives us a better perspective.

[stemis] 18/3/2024 11:02

According to the web site Quilter still own 23.5% of ordinary shares. The also own 31.5% of the preference shares.

[redhorse2020] 18/3/2024 10:39

Analysis seems right to me and very helpful although does rather put the 108 million target by 2052 into context. Hopefully the conflict will not last that long in which case 108 million doesn't look particularly taxing over that timescale.

[cc2014] 18/3/2024 09:23

Haven't Quilter sold their holding to the management ?? I could be wrong. Something along this line was talked about on this thread a couple of months ago.

If so then the management can basically vote through whatever they want.

[gfrae] 18/3/2024 09:17

I am not saying anything is wrong, only that it is surprising to me that Ordinary shareholders would agree to it, though I can see why Pref holders would- (and I also presume that the Directors 30% would not be voted), so not necessarily a total slam dunk.

[stemis] 18/3/2024 08:55

gfrae,

which bit of my analysis could be wrong?

[redhorse2020] 17/3/2024 23:45

My guess would be that they would agree because the directors plus Quilter own over 50 percent of the ordinaries and also over 50 percent of the preference shares therefore its wooden dollars to them whether distributions are via ordinaries or preference shares. In fact, Quilter own a larger proportion of the preference share capital than they do ordinaries, therefore presumably would actually prefer the bulk of any distributions to be via the preference shares. To be honest I can't see me getting anything back on my ordinary shares anyway given the extent of the arrears on the preference shares so it's probably a moot point in any case.

[gfrae] 17/3/2024 22:46

Stemis, if the situation is as you descibe, why would Ordinary shareholders agree to it ?
There could be a stuation where the 20% new Preference shareholders got dividends whilst the Ordinary shareholders recieved nothing. Eg if there were only suffient funds to pay the Prefs.

[redhorse2020] 17/3/2024 21:19

Definitely value in the business and I really hope the team are able to realise as much as possible for all shareholders including themselves. Just hope it doesn't take till 2052 and that if it does it's a bit more than the 108 million.

[stemis] 17/3/2024 17:03

A couple of points over the options.

Firstly options over ordinary shares are of no financial interest to we preference shareholders as our interest takes preference over the ordinary shares.

Secondly the option over preference shares is to receive new preference shares not 20% of our individual holdings. That only becomes relevant when there is insufficient funds to cover preference shares. Presumably, as new preference shares, they would not be entitled to accrued dividends and the interest due on unpaid dividends.

As at 31.12.22 there were £629,315,000 of assets to cover the preference share liability of £280,740,000 (which is 129.6p per preference share, after accruing for unpaid dividends and interest thereon) i.e. There are 216,634,485 preference shares in issue so issuing another 20% (not sure if it's 20% of the existing number or enough to comprise 20% of the total, but let's assume it's the latter as it's more) would mean another 54m preference shares. That would mean £629 million of assets to cover a preference share liability of £335m.

Ok, there's a long way to go but the option issue isn't quite as bleak as it might seem at first.

[gfrae] 16/3/2024 21:54

1.Arnt they already well paid ?
2. They own 30%
A further 20% could be £200m or more ?
Seems quit a lot?

[stemis] 16/3/2024 15:52

Eventually the US and Europe will come to their sense and get Ukraine to agree a peace deal.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Perhaps Trump could do it and return brandishing the agreement, perhaps with a speech to the press along the lines of...

"The settlement of the Ukraine problem, which has now been achieved is, in my view, only the prelude to a larger settlement in which all Europe may find peace. This morning I had another talk with the Russian President, Vladimir Putin, and here is the paper which bears his name upon it as well as mine" [shows paper to crowd]

[redhorse2020] 16/3/2024 15:49

In terms of alternatives I'd prefer they build in tiers that trigger options of increasing size based on the actual value returned to shareholders and how quickly rather than just a flat 108 million at some point in the next 28 years but as I say just my personal view.

[redhorse2020] 16/3/2024 15:45

What's wrong with living in Dubai? Fantastic place! In terms of incentives, I think it's mainly the 2052 expiry along with the sheer size of it that's puzzled most holders. As you say, it doesn't matter what we think just what they agree between themselves and Quilter - no harm in voicing an opinion though.

[kickingking] 16/3/2024 15:08

Eventually the US and Europe will come to their sense and get Ukraine to agree a peace deal. They will never get back the land they lost. .These will be worth something then

[dandigirl] 16/3/2024 13:54

when moaning about the actions of the current management, please feel free to suggest alternatives.

most of us have written off our investments. Bilton and Co are endeavouring to find ways of extracting value for both themselves and us. These include travelling to/from Russia and living in the middle east. I wouldn't wish to do either. If they compensate themselves along the way, so be it. Besides, there is nothing we can do about it.

the assets in Russia do have value. let's just be patient and let them do what they have to do.

[wskill] 16/3/2024 09:46

For having very little to do with the day to day running of the company the Russia management do that what are the doing every day to warrant the large salary and now this huge bonus.

[gfrae] 14/3/2024 09:49

Has anyone looked at the mechanics of the 20% ? Eg does it reduce NAV, Earnings etc by 20%. When is it paid ? Who pays it ? Are pref shareholders treated equally to Ordinary shareholders now ? etc etc.
Will keep rereading, it would be very helpful if there was some explanation or a video meeting to explain how this will work.
It seems a lot, as someone says above you would have thought management already have plenty of incentives.

[1knocker] 13/3/2024 13:00

pbaker, I remember that!

I was young and poor, and bought a Russian railway bond certificate for about a tenner as a cheap colourful engraving to hang in my newly acquired and distinctly bare flat. A few months later the gallery sent me a cheque for the return of the VAT on its purchase, because the certificate had been re-classified from artwork to a current security!

That did not make it a good investment, but it made a good picture for years until the sun faded it. Never did cash it in. I don't think the proceeds would have covered the price of the stamp, let alone the cost (even VAT free) of its purchase!

[redhorse2020] 13/3/2024 11:59

Yeah it's a good call - 2052 implies they have plenty of patience :-)

[zangdook] 13/3/2024 11:11

I'd prefer them to have a small incentive to get to 50p/pref or whatever it is, and a higher incentive to get the full par value plus all dividends. Given the performance of the underlying assets, the latter shouldn't be impossible to achieve with a little patience.