Phoenix Share Discussion Threads

[stevenrevell] 20/10/2016 09:40

Let's break £9.00

[rcturner2] 20/10/2016 08:28

A debt is just a contract between two parties, lender and borrower. There is no divine right of lenders to get a rate higher than the market bears.

[edmundshaw] 19/10/2016 16:24

I have to say the main factor seems to be low interest rates (negative in real terms at least, as sogoesit says), so that the pensioner is not even getting his money back (though even if she could take it as a lump sum, she still needs to find somewhere with inflation-proofing to stash it herself if it is to act as a pension; and National Savings has not been providing for that game for a few years now).

In times of big debt, savers will probably always get shafted. And UK debt has never been higher...

[sogoesit] 19/10/2016 11:05

The "con" being that central bankers have driven yields negative, imv.
Money for the rich(er), poor(er) get fleeced, as always.

[rcturner2] 19/10/2016 07:30

The plan is a minefield no question of that, but that doesn't change the fact that the annuities sold to people in the recent past are a total con.

[jonwig] 19/10/2016 07:14

Firms weren't interested in buying back the annuities, and advisors would be reluctant to give advice even for £'000s because of the risk of mis-selling when clients found they'd messed up.

The Daily Mail seems to think pensioners are stuck with 'rip-off' annuities. In fact the plan was a minefield.

I don't know whether PHMX was interested in entering the secondary market, but I imagine they would not be.

[edmundshaw] 18/10/2016 10:40

Just about enough dividends coming into my ISA before November to pay for these. And nice protection from the new dividend tax :)

[gliderpilot2002] 17/10/2016 21:36

I like this company however I have sold all my shares in it for now as it is a long time to the next dividend. I hope the shares may go lower before then.

[garycook] 17/10/2016 08:31

I have been informed by Hargreaves Lansdown that Oct 25,we will be informed of our allocation of rights,and options.Payments have to be received by Noon on Fri Nov 4.

[cwa1] 17/10/2016 08:24

Morning All

Been away for a little while, so trying to get up to speed on a few issues. When should we expect to get information from brokers about take up requests, etc?

Appreciate any comments on this from anyone, thanks.

[rcturner2] 15/10/2016 14:01

It will depend on how you hold your current shares. If you use an online broker usually there is a message or form to fill in. Log into your account and see what is there. If you have difficulty phone your broker.

[stevenrevell] 14/10/2016 17:00

Anyone tell me how to take up the rights issue ta

[pete_sts] 14/10/2016 16:30

Thanks for the kind words chaps and good to get some validation on my thinking.

[sogoesit] 14/10/2016 16:16

Indeed, thanks for your clear options pete_sts on this issue.
I have done part 1) and part 3) since I hold these in different wrappers.
Completed my deals today and await my rights.

[ronhill1] 14/10/2016 12:26

Pete_sts. Excellent post which I have just seen after spending a good part of this morning going through the same process as you. My thought is option 3 as well.

[eeza] 13/10/2016 13:28

QuePassa - Filtered. Playground behavior.

[quepassa] 13/10/2016 13:13

QUOTE EEZA:

Disgusting & childish behavior.



Indeed!

QP

[eeza] 13/10/2016 11:08

QuePassa - you're trolling, on multiple threads in a vendetta.



Disgusting & childish behavior.

[quepassa] 13/10/2016 10:47

Time to sel lPhoenix ,and put proceeds into ASHM,better dividend also at over 6%.If GARYCOOKis ramping Phoenix,then definetly time to sell.

[garycook] 13/10/2016 01:55

If you can afford it,take up your rights in full.Then if you are overweight sell what you do not require.New price will be at lowest 7.16 plus and you have a share owing you 5.08.If you do not have the required cash,buy what you can afford and sell the rest of your rights.

[pete_sts] 12/10/2016 21:14

Thanks for pointing that out sogoesit, you're absolutely right. Cayman Islands company hence no stamp duty.

@jonwig on the subject of market risk it seems to me that the approach I described works quite well. If we define market risk as 'uncertainty about the price per share that you will have ended up paying once the rights issue has finally completed' then we can rank the various strategies like this:

1. Sell everything now and buy back in once the rights issue is completed: maximum risk -- the price may move a long way and you could end up with a much higher (or indeed lower) price per share.

2. Hang on to all your shares, wait to get your nil-paid rights and sell some of these to fund the purchase of the rest of the rights at 508p: fairly low risk -- depending on sentiment the price of the nil-paid rights will vary, so the ratio between the number of rights you need to sell and the number you need to buy is not fixed, leading to a small uncertainty in the price per share. Most of your holding just stays in the market, significantly reducing the market risk compared to option (1), but there is still some uncertainty.

3. Sell exactly the number of shares that you need in order to fund the purchase of the rights-issue shares that will be awarded based on the shares you retain (which in this case happens to be about 25% of your initial holding): lowest risk -- because the price of the shares in the rights issue is fixed, you know that for every 16 shares you had before the rights issue you will have 19 shares after the rights issue, so there is in fact no uncertainty in the price per share.

4. Hang on to your existing shares and put in the extra cash necessary to buy all the shares: lowest risk. Again you know exactly how much extra cash you will need to inject, so there is no uncertainty in the price per share.

Does this sound right or have I made a mistake somewhere?

Of course, for a lot of us, (4) is a problem because PHNX has done pretty well over the last four years and pumping more cash in would distort our portfolios, so I am thinking I will go for (3).