Patisserie Share Discussion Threads

[tradejunkie2] 30/1/2019 10:57

Patisserie Valerie investors prepare to sue

Law firm Teacher Stern signs up 30 shareholders and will pursue PwC report

[bor491] 30/1/2019 07:53

Well I suppose he could roll our a PT into every Sports Direct branch. -> I presume his plan is to put them in House of Fraser stores - that would make a lot of sense as it would help House of Fraser become a 'social' destination.

[diku] 29/1/2019 22:29

And once you lost the weight return them back within the 30 day return policy!!...

[konradpuss] 29/1/2019 22:10

It appears (according to the Guardian) that Mike Ashley is interested in bidding for the rump of the business!

Well I suppose he could roll our a PT into every Sports Direct branch.

You could then put on the pounds in store, buy a tracks suit and trainers then run them off!

[owenski] 29/1/2019 19:53

Luke Johnson could do with being placed between two large pieces of sponge mix and baked at gas7 for 40 mins, filled with generous portions of cream, topped with a thick layer of chocolate, poked severely with a prong to make sure he hasn't got a soggy bottom and then served up at an angry investor's meeting.

Just making a cake inspired comment of indignation.

[dmipne] 29/1/2019 19:42

I think great Geraldo is Close the truth on this one. LJ will not have played any direct part in a fraud, conspiracy or cover up. He is however I consider guilty of creating the culture in the company.

I’d guess that culture would be one focused on numbers and financials, a bullying type environment where staff were too afraid to confess they had missed targets so found ways of cooking the books.

I have seen this happen many times before. People then find ways of “ borrowing “ profit from the future in the genuine belief initially that they can pay it back when the environment improves. But it does not happen, and they have to do it again , the hole gets bigger and they keep digging. There is no way back.

It’s the responsibility of the auditor to uncover this. It is usually a very simple accounting adjustment that has been made to make everything fit the target. If auditors were focussed on getting the numbers right they would easily spot it. Sadly , they are usually too focussed on keeping the directors of the company happy so they will buy other services , and keeping their regulators happy by completing mindless checklists and concentrating on anything rather than the basic bookkeeping.

Financial reporting and auditing has lost its way in a sea of bureaucracy and mind numbing irrelevant disclosures. Auditors have lost independence. The main partners in audit firms are essentially salesmen whose job it is to win work then sell extra services. They have lost any sense of responsibility to the shareholders or the wider community that rely on accounts.

Getting such a simple company as this wrong really should shake the audit profession to its foundations. GT should go out of business But It won’t happen. Indeed with all the talk of the big 4 dominating the market GT are one of only a few to be able to challenge the market, but their quality of product is Rock bottom low.

[johnwise] 29/1/2019 18:05

15 October 2018

"Grant Thornton – which has audited parent firm Patisserie Holdings since 2006 and pocketed up to £600,000 in fees in the last four years alone – could face legal action for failing to spot the problems."

[tradejunkie2] 29/1/2019 17:58

Line up amongst all the other AIM muppet investors that have lost money.


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diku29 Jan '19 - 14:42 - 2866 of 2869
Investors buying shares here in good faith find later if the books have been cooked up for some time...do they have a case against directors?..

[konradpuss] 29/1/2019 17:57

I would suggest an audit partner signed off the accounts at Grant Thornton. He/she is the first to be dust as was the audit partner that signed off the Carillion accounts. I believe that fellow was thrown out of the profession in short order.

I suspect there will be a firm of 'ambulance chaser' lawyers that will get some shareholders together to litigate all including LJ and Grant Thornton.

[thegreatgeraldo] 29/1/2019 14:45

SW - I'd guess that 10 years or so ago the original small, well established, & perhaps critically well positioned, chain enjoyed decent margins (real ones, not paper ones!)

[diku] 29/1/2019 14:42

Investors buying shares here in good faith find later if the books have been cooked up for some time...do they have a case against directors?..

[still waiting] 29/1/2019 14:41

were they ever free from errors ? that's what needs to be established..

[dmipne] 29/1/2019 12:46

Sikh. Yes, it’s very simple. The name of the senior auditor / partner will be at the foot of the audit report in the accounts. He will be the focus of the claim, but the whole organisation as a whole should fail as a result , because, as others have m3ntioned, it’s not the first and it won’t be the last where they have demonstrated gross incompetence. In my view they are simply not truly independent.

Staff working on the job should not face any charges, it’s the management at fault.

[meijiman] 29/1/2019 12:37

I have never held CAKE shares but been following the saga. This is certainly not the only case in which GT has messed up. It may not be the last.

[stephen1946] 29/1/2019 12:34

Whilst G.T. have a big responsibility for this failing, a much bigger Responibility is being ignored by the MSM and investors.

HMRC are the biggest failures here, in fact HMRC have in the true sense, aided and abetted this Scam.

The local VAT compliance officers who visited or were responsible for their area, WILL have known the figures did not add up. Those on here, in business will understand what i am saying. The compliance visit`s know and understand the numbers of a business better than anybody. If P.V. was overpaying their VAT it is incumbent on HMRC to inform the company of such.

HMRC have been reckless to the point of fraudulent to allow P.V. to overpay VAT for so long. Negligence for certain, VAT allowed this to carry on stuffing its shareholders.

There is most certainly a need for HMRC to explain it`s failure to protect investor`s in a corporate scam. If you underpay VAT the business owner is liable, the reverse should apply, heads must roll at HMRC.

[sikhthetech] 29/1/2019 12:33

Dmipne,

Not suggesting prison for any GT staff unless there was fraud committed... I think it's possible to identify those at GT who were assigned to handle and sign off the accounts.
I think those individuals should be held to account on incompetency grounds...

Whether that means GT are ultimately responsible as the employer, is a different matter...

[dmipne] 29/1/2019 12:24

Sikh. Not sure what you are suggesting here, but I doubt there would be sufficient evidence to bring a fraud case against individuals at Grant Thornton that would result in a prison term. There is a danger of us lashing out like a wounded tiger here.

There will be overwhelming evidence to prove gross incompetence and negligence. That must be the line of attack and there must be massive financial consequences. That will put the fear in to other firms of auditors, and may help reform the profession.

[sikhthetech] 29/1/2019 12:15

Dmipne,

I would have thought that GT would have a team/persons assigned to handle PV as a client and someone who signed off the accounts.

If that is the case then it wouldn't be difficult finding individuals who were responsible...

[dmipne] 29/1/2019 12:08

I agree Grant Thornton should be fully brought to account. Prison however should only be an option where individuals have been deliberately and personally involved in fraud. I doubt this will be the case here.

What is without doubt is that their organisation has contributed to the significant financial loss of others. The recompense is financial loss for GT and it’s partners. If such people are allowed to bring claims against GT, the firm will fold and it’s partners face financial ruin. That would be a fair outcome. If you sell a duff product that ruins others, you deserve such ruin on yourself.

[johnwise] 29/1/2019 12:06

Patisserie Valerie report talks of fake invoices and ledgers

January 25, 2019

[meijiman] 29/1/2019 11:43

The senior people at Grant Thornton must also be held up for their part in this fiasco. Lengthy prison terms all round would soon sober them up. A rotten apple of a firm.

[sikhthetech] 29/1/2019 11:27

Audit industry is broken, admits Grant Thornton as it demands overhaul to reduce the power of its rivals


"Grant Thornton is demanding a major overhaul of the industry to reduce the power of its biggest rivals."

"'Reform is needed. It is in everyone's interests – including UK plc – to build trust and integrity in this market.'"


"Grant Thornton admitted in its letter to MPs that it has sometimes fallen short of the standards required, but claimed it is focused on improving performance."