Pantheon Share Discussion Threads

[skyship] 13/10/2021 08:57

....then back in today @ 2911p...

[skyship] 12/10/2021 15:17

apple53 - TFG - an absolute scandal. Mercifully I gave up on that one quite a long time ago...

I admit I'm a bit of a trader with the PE trusts; always on the look out for an anomaly. PIN was clearly one such last week; so took a quick £1 a share out of it.

[apple53] 12/10/2021 14:04

Skyship - I am with donald in not really wanting/needing a dividend, but I do like to see management comparing share repurchase with their other investment opportunities, and I am thrilled with the buybacks. I wonder how much of the August outperformance of PIN vs HVPE related to (expectation of) buybacks. As you mentioned some of that outperformance has unwound, and the two are now on similar discounts.

One thing to bear in mind is that disclosed NAVs were miles behind reality for most of 2021, so an apparent 15-20% discount was actually more like 25-35%. NAV calcs have mostly caught up, so even if optical discounts have expanded real discounts probably haven't.
Still both super-cheap and not planning to sell any for a while.

btw I am also in Tetragon - very frustrating.

[skyship] 07/10/2021 14:11

The 5% pullback after recently achieving the 3000p target, does now represent a good entry point again as at 2845p the discount is up to 26.7%. This whilst PIN has also started buybacks, which should help underwrite current levels.


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[skyship] 25/9/2021 09:15

dp - the problem is that the end result could be like the ghastly Tetragon on a 67% discount. It won't be of course because it is fundamentally well-managed and well supported by institutional shareholders; but the logic is plausible.

Shareholders should share in the success; not just get a warm glow from a growing NAV.

Where is your total return if you receive no return!?

[donald pond] 25/9/2021 08:52

There's a difference of opinion there sky, a few of us don't care. I focus on total return and would prefer the company to reinvest any cash with a view to maximising returns over the long term.

[skyship] 25/9/2021 08:48

Short of a blow-up of the US bubble, the trend below should continue.

Personally however I do wholeheartedly reject the PIN & HVPE business model of just growing NAV, maximising their fees, whilst paying out zilch to shareholders.

At some stage they will join all the other PE trusts and pay-out an NAV related dividend. Continuing to hold out is shameful and blatant profiteering by the investment managers IMO.


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[donald pond] 24/9/2021 10:18

HVPE NAV was up 7.2% last month and share price didn't respond. Discounts across the sector are getting silly again

[hashertu] 24/9/2021 08:51

I can live with that.
I might almost be able to live off that (one day).

[skyship] 24/9/2021 08:25

Well - the 3000p target now met; but surely more to come. Even at 3035p the discount is still 21.8%...

[langland] 24/9/2021 07:04

Doors blown off!

[killing_time] 27/8/2021 09:00

RNS out, Proposed 10 for 1 share split.

[skyship] 25/8/2021 21:19

A break through 2800 suggests 3000 soon thereafter:


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[dendria] 19/8/2021 09:36

Hardman research report out today:

[badtime] 13/8/2021 10:48

Close to that 2800 short term target

[skyship] 11/8/2021 21:08

Charlie - firstly, sorry, those stats were for the PE trust BPET, not the propco BCPT.

Agreed re PIN buybacks; but of course those too reduce their fee base. Helps shareholders maybe; but penalises the fund manager; who should of course be doing the right thing by their shareholders.

[charlie153] 11/8/2021 14:36

sky - BCPT is a property fund and PEY is direct PE so i don't see those as great comparables.

The best example is SLPE who have amended dividend policy a few times over the years and it has had no real effect on the long term average discount.

The only proven way to reduce the discount is through NAV outperformance.

I would however, encourage PIN to be more proactive and opportunistic with buybacks. Right now would be a good time as they have lots of cash and the discount is relatively wide. I dont think a regular buyback or dividend policy works given the variability in returns from year to year.

Ive worked for 3 different listed PE fund of funds over the years, 1 with a growing dividend and 2 with no divided. So i know from experience of going out marketing these funds that income investors will not come in their droves for this no matter what level of dividend is offered

[skyship] 09/8/2021 21:36

Charlie - listen & learn. Capital & income are two sides of the same coin - so divis from PE can & should be paid out of both.

Take a look at BPET on an 8.5% discount and 3.95% yield. Also PEY on a 10.8% discount and a 4.93% yield.

Plain as a pikestaff that the payment of a dividend expands the investor base. Not to understand that undermines your opinions.

[badtime] 09/8/2021 17:36

Ok ..who sold that 16k

[badtime] 09/8/2021 13:21

I get exactly where you are coming from Sky

[charlie153] 09/8/2021 11:08

skyship. I dont understand your obsession with dividends. as others have said if you want a return, sell some shares. There's no evidence of a dividend resulting in a lower discount look at NB and SLPE to see what i mean. Income investors most likely wouldnt buy this. If you want an income, surely you'd invest in a fund which produces some ie Property, infra, ftse 100 etc. PIN invests in growth companies so doesnt make much by way of income.

I also dont buy your argument that the mgmt just want to protect fees. pantheon have over $65bn in AUM as a group. If they started a 3% divi it would make no material difference to their revenue.

[skyship] 06/8/2021 08:35

dp - "..and will probably buy in the next couple of months."

Why would you buy in a couple of month's time at £30 when you can buy today at £27.25?

And of course paying a dividend would narrow the discount as it would then be accessible to income funds; ergo increases the pool of possible investors.

PIN will of course just trot out their usual defence of institutions looking for capital growth - everyone is; but income too for the vast majority.

No, the management here primarily interested in not denting their own income stream - plain as a pikestaff. In recent years practically all the other PE trusts have fallen into line. Not so HVPE & PIN - though doesn't stop me buying them when anomalously cheap.

[rcturner2] 06/8/2021 07:48

If everyone continually sells some of their shares instead of a dividend then this just weakens the price and you are undermining your own holding, no wonder the discount is where it is. You are continually increasing the supply of shares to the market. I held this in the past and I must admit that I no longer buy trusts that do not pay a dividend.

[donald pond] 06/8/2021 07:39

I'm not in PIN at the moment but I often have some and will probably buy in the next couple of months. Dividends are no use to me, I agree that I would sooner sell a few if I want some cash. Would they narrow the discount or affect the total return? I doubt it to be honest. But if they can compound at 10%+ each year I'd sooner they held onto the cash.