Pantheon Share Discussion Threads

[skyship] 29/10/2015 09:45

RAM - do you have an epic for the redeemables?

[mad foetus] 29/10/2015 09:33

The announcement this week that the co had purchased and cancelled 100,000 of the redeemables at the current discount effectively means a profit of something like £200,000 for the ords. Not hugely material but it is positive and to be encouraged.

[rambutan2] 29/10/2015 01:55

The redeemables are available on a much bigger discount. They aren't always liquid but for long termers it doesn't really matter, and at some stage they'll likely be turned into ords.

[damanko] 28/10/2015 19:12

Good and fair points and opinions as usual. Though in my case I still retain some, and occasionally buy what SKY calls CTCs (a new moniker to me, but never too old to learn).

Some months ago I bought SHELL OIL at fifteen something, placing it in a SIPP meaning a buying price in the region of £13 once the tax stuff was reinvested. Of course I did this mainly for the dividend, which I reckon if only for (historical) pride purposes the management at Shell is determined to maintain.

I expect the oil price to resume its upward trend over time, just a case of when. Having worked in the Middle East in the late 80's when the price meandered between ten and eleven dollars a barrel for some time, I'm not overly worried.

I resolutely refuse (perhaps stupidly) to sell my remaining investment in PIN, as sitting on a paper profit of 14 times what I originally paid - I know will never be replaced/replicated.

However if and when I get sensible and cash in, I know what I'll do. Nothing to do with a Lamborghini either. Most of the proceeds will be steered into Witan and a couple of other ITs, including RIT Capital Partners.

As I approach the age of 60, I reckon my days of having fun, researching various companies and digging a little deeper are numbered. Looking at what the likes of Witan, RIT and select other specialist ITs do with my money, and the relatively small charges involved are good enough.

Something of a caveat to finish with: Newer readers of this thread (if there are any ...) should be told/reminded that during the financial crisis 6 years ago, PIN plummeted to a little over £2, as what we call the market lost confidence in PEITs as a whole. I considered selling (still at a profit) but being a tad contrary I bought some more at that knock down price. I seriously doubt I'll get that opportunity again.

Go well all holders and buyers (and sellers).

[skyship] 28/10/2015 16:56

MF - Would be a good switch for anyone holding PIN, but not LMS. The price of LMS just shows the level of mistrust of the Board following the bizarre goings on back in Jul/Aug.

With the next Tender due shortly; and possibly as early as the November IMS which could be next week; LMS should be trading at 80p rather than the current 73p! I'm hoping for a 35% Tender @ c93p.

Like you I no longer hold/trade CTCs (Conventional Trading Companies).

[mad foetus] 28/10/2015 11:15

To be honest, that's why I try not to invest in trading companies: while I know that the likes of PIN won't double in a month, I am also fairly confident they will only drop sharply if there is a market correction (and even then, the discount and diversity can provide some buffer, though not always).

The recent NAV announcement was good, but largely driven by currency movements, and what is given one month can easily be taken the next.

I can see a fairly strong argument for selling PIN at the moment and putting a chunk into LMS in advance of the likely tender. On the other hand, I like PIN and would be happy holding it for decades. Decisions!

[rcturner2] 28/10/2015 11:09

Skyship, bit of a bolt from the blue there. I sold up yesterday, shocking statement really. Half my 2015 profit wiped out.

[skyship] 28/10/2015 10:58

Another good monthly performance by PIN. NAV at 1629.1p; but after the rise to 1395p the discount now down to 14.4% - lowest in the sector

RCT - hope your allocation to AMO not too great - I see they dropped 30% on that profits warning!

[rcturner2] 22/9/2015 08:51

I like a small company called Amino Tech (AMO) I have a big stake in them, which I started building at 80p (now 160p). They are in just the right place in the TV market and their balance sheet and cash generation are excellent. They have just made a very large acquisition that means that reading their historical figures does not fully do justice. Look at their latest interim results, see the organic growth before the acquisition (which was funded from cash and a placing at 130p).

[mad foetus] 22/9/2015 08:47

You are one of the posters I keep an eye on but other than your bullishness on PEY and bearishness on BRWM, have you any other views?

[rcturner2] 22/9/2015 08:45

mf, stick with me mate ;-)

[mad foetus] 22/9/2015 08:42

Pantheon International Participations PLC ("PIP") announces an unaudited net asset value ("NAV") per share at 31(st) August 2015 of 1,600.3p, an increase of 62.8p (4.1%) from the NAV per share as at 31(st) July 2015. Valuation gains (50.7p, 3.3%), investment income (4.0p, 0.3%) and foreign exchange gains (10.4p, 0.7%) were partly offset by expenses and taxes* (-2.3p, -0.2%).

A very positive month and still at a ridiculous discount for a trust that is a long term star performer.

[rcturner2] 13/8/2015 15:45

PEY NAV H1 + 9.7%

[mad foetus] 12/8/2015 11:26

got it damanko

[rcturner2] 12/8/2015 10:32

PEY one of my favourites. PE IT that returns the profits as dividends.

[mad foetus] 12/8/2015 10:26

I have a monthly sub to Witan, I think their structure is very good and their choice of managers is excellent (e.g. they have given their far east mandate to Matthews, who are hard for ordinary PIs to access but have an excellent performance). I would be surprised if their NAV performance wasn't top quartile over any extended period, though of course there is no discount there any more, so share prices in something like Caledonian may rise more if they can narrow their substantial discount.

It is interesting to note that most of the global ITs (F&C, Witan etc) have their highest individual allocations to PE funds. For the long term investor who doesn't particularly have an income requirement, well diversified PE funds are as good as it gets, provided of course you don't end up having to sell during the periodic widening of discounts.

[damanko] 12/8/2015 10:19

Wow. Activity on this thread, I like it .... I still haven't sold PIN, some stubborn gene I possess won't let me get rid of such a spectacularly successful investment.

Sky and I have form, we've exchanged opinions over the last few years, sometimes contrary, and always lively and engaging, enjoyable in fact.

As I've aged and priorities have changed over time, recently I've sold very long term holdings in companies like BAE, Dixons, Prudential and a few others.

Regarding the 'fund' issue, what follows is in no way a recommendation:

I've put the proceeds into Witan & City of London Investment Trusts for a couple of reasons - they pay dividends 4 times each year, which at my stage of the game I reinvest, but will one day take the cash, so 8 paydays each year. Plus I'm a bit of an Investment Trust tart, aware that without having to do too much research, I'm exposed to and involved in most of Britain's, European and American movers and shakers on the corporate scene. Witan in particular I reckon is set to outperform, it's as close to a multi asset fund as it's possible to get, without paying silly amounts of fees as one would in a Unit Trust.

And we all have to look on the bright side: We've won the Ashes ......

[rcturner2] 12/8/2015 07:14

ps just to add to your comment on 15 years of sideways movement in UK shares, that is of course a function of the FTSE 100. The FTSE 250 over the same period has provided a massive return, which is more evidence for the stagnation at the top, while the bull run is lower down.

[rcturner2] 12/8/2015 07:12

mf, I hold a reasonable stake in MGHU. A split trust, the MGHU shares pay 10% dividend and are at a nice discount to the NAV. It has chugged away doing exactly what it says on the tin.

Another one I have looked at before is Schroders income maximiser, although this is a unit trust and I am not a massive fan of UTs, much preferring ITs. It focusses on boring defensives mainly and uses options to add a few % to the income. The only risk on the options is they cap the capital growth, but actually it is not a bad strategy and it has a pretty good long term record.

[mad foetus] 11/8/2015 11:39

FWIW the average date of incorporation of the companies that Fundsmith invests in is 1913.

You are completely correct in your view that the vast majority of large companies are large by virtue of being in the right place at the right time. Probably 90% of large companies are companies which are at the height of their powers and will soon go into decline, to be replaced by the sort of entities that we hope PIN has a stake in. But there are a small number of companies that dominate their sectors and have advantages that cannot be replicated. You can certainly buy and hold them.

[rcturner2] 11/8/2015 11:29

I would be willing to bet that in 50 years none of those companies exist.

In the relatively short life of the FTSE 100 (30 years?) only about 25 remain from the original 100.

[mad foetus] 11/8/2015 11:21

RC, I am sure you are right and it was Terry Smith quoting Buffet I meant to say. I think big companies still have a lot to offer in many sectors: in 50 years time I suspect Colgate will still be making most of the toothpaste we use, Unilever most of the washing powder, Kone the lifts and Diageo the drinks. But they all operate in sectors where disruptive change is harder to achieve.

[rcturner2] 11/8/2015 11:00

That quote is Warren Buffet.

He is the classic example of someone who went for big companies when that fitted with the economic reality of the time.

[mad foetus] 11/8/2015 10:56

I agree with most of what you both say, though I am not sure that long term investing is dead: in my view one of the most significant risks to any investor is that of overtrading and while I think the costs of Fundsmith are too high, the buy and hold approach they espouse seems very sensible.

As I've discussed offline with sky before, I don't like investing in most trading companies, precisely because they can be gone tomorrow. I would sooner leave the due diligence to fund managers who know what they are looking at. Asset holding companies are different: if you own half a dozen industrial parks in the north east or an office block in London there is some absolute value there.

I think one of the best investment quotes I've ever heard was from Terry Smith: he said you should only invest in a company if its business is sufficiently simple that it can be run by an idiot, because sooner or later, it will be.

I suspect the real big unknown at the moment is whether we are at the start of a bull market that will push the FTSE to 20,000 or if the bear market will have a final bite. The market has been moving sideways for 15 years: history shows you tend to get 16-18 year cycles of sideways movement followed by uptrends. If we are at the start of a bull market, 15-20%pa over the next decade may be more realistic. But I wouldn't bet on that yet.