Optare Share Discussion Threads

[reximill] 10/11/2015 10:59

Does anyone think there is any chance of an Ashok bid for the rest of the shares in issue? They own 75% at the moment. I don't see why they don't just buy up the rest rather than keeping it going in this form. What is the benefit for them to keep Optare going hanging 25% of the shareholders on.

[reximill] 03/11/2015 07:31

''it has previously been plausibly suggested that annual turnover of £100 million is needed for the company to break even.''

That is quite a high number and almost double what they are achieving now.

I still don't understand why Ashok do not pull the plug on this. It has around £10m neg equity and climbing. What are they actually getting out of keeping this going?

[jsbach123] 31/10/2015 13:54

And your point is what clocktower?

[clocktower] 30/10/2015 20:06

Liberty Bus in Jersey has been running a large fleet of Optare buses for some years(around 4 years) and they seem to perform extremely well and are popular with travellers. They show no signs of wear and tear, and it is surprising that sales have not flourished.

Advertising sits well on the designs and they have good wheelchair access, also ideal for mums/dads with prams. A few pictures can be found on the website link below.

hxxp://www.marketingbureaujersey.com/Services/Jersey-Buses/

[jsbach123] 30/10/2015 18:32

Very hard to say about sales numbers reximill as there are so many variables and for outsiders to make estimates so much necessary information not known; however it has previously been plausibly suggested that annual turnover of £100 million is needed for the company to break even.

[reximill] 30/10/2015 18:05

Does anyone know how many buses need to be sold to break even?

I see they've sold another 7. No idea how much these cost though...

[jsbach123] 22/10/2015 20:37

Double decker to be cancelled?

[jsbach123] 22/10/2015 15:47

Well, I wish Vassallo well. The resignation that is so long overdue is that of Fickling who since being in post has been paid(I will not write éarned') more than half a million pounds. I wonder though how many and how quickly the recent appointees will bail.

[m.t.glass] 22/10/2015 15:23

It was Roy Stanley who put together Optare, the bus maker that he has since distanced himself from, but whose Indian owner seems to be struggling with. Might he be thinking of persuading Ashok Leyland to sell back some part of it? I've no idea. But today's announcement from Tanfield Group (the shell that maintains a half holding in Snorkel and a tiny one in Smith Electric) of agm resolutions allowing some apparent flexibility in how it utilises its assets when the Snorkel windfall kicks in soon, I wouldn't rule out the very feint possibility.

[m.t.glass] 22/10/2015 07:44

Several superfluous charts removed from header, just leaving the one..

[kimoldfield] 21/10/2015 16:54

John Fickling is still there though!

I've put my shares in a frame and hung it on the wall in my chamber of horrors! :o)

[reximill] 21/10/2015 13:24

I see the CEO has left...what is Optare going to do now?

Has anyone bought or sold any shares since delisting? Anyone know if there is a price out there from someone wanting to deal?

[jsbach123] 09/10/2015 21:36

See the latest Route One magazine for a piece about Wrightbus moving into electrics with full range of options from early 2016 - writing on wall for Optare? Quite possibly IMHO. If not that, then serious competition.

Deafening silence from the company about orders from the recent NEC event.

No Metrodecker orders announced to date. It was launched in Covent Garden in May 2014. Is this a record length of time for any new bus not being ordered from its launch? Or is the company simply being coy and not telling the world and shareholders of its stunning success?

But SMMT number for September not too bad - but enough to allow the company to trade at break even? I doubt it.

[jsbach123] 18/9/2015 14:33

See the latest issue of Route One magazine - new ADL hybrid bus for London: death knell for hopes of Optare selling its DD in numbers perhaps.

[reximill] 15/9/2015 09:43

Thank you JSBach. It will be interesting to see if Optare can breakeven or even make a profit. It looks like Ashok have agreed to fund it for 3 years so maybe there is a small chance.
It all is a very strange story of why they de-listed whilst keeping the company funded as it does seem in a very bad position financially.

[jsbach123] 14/9/2015 22:50

reximill Optare is de facto a subsidiary company of Ashok and they will IMHO continue to fund it as long as either they really do believe it can be a vehicle (oops no pun intended) for their ambitions to develop a significant presence in the global bus market or as long as they do not wish to lose face.

Barclays lend them money because their interest payments are secure and being bankers to Hinduja may bring other less obvious benefits both short and longer-term.

The share price is irrelevant to Ashok. Also as the shares are not listed they are, even though there is a matched bargain facility, really rather illiquid for remaining PIs.

Ashok could have bought remaining shareholders out at very low cost. IMHO they bought themselves a good deal of ill-will for not doing so.

Be sure that Ashok's clever managers and accountants are running the company for Ashok's benefit. It may be that soon the company can trade at break even and after then it can perhaps generate profits to reduce the indebtedness. Much depends I suspect on the next six months especially the early months of next calendar year when it is usual for large fleet orders to be placed.

[reximill] 13/9/2015 17:48

Thanks JSBach - Given the net asset value is a huge negative 8 figure sum. I don't see why Ashok and Barclays continue to renew loans.
As they are doing so, then is this not giving optare shareholders a chance to turn the company round and perhaps redeem some value if optare are successful in the next 3 or so years?
Also I do not see why Ashok do not just buy out remaining shareholders. They couljd probably buy them out for 0.3p a share? which would only cost Ashok £1.5m in total. Surely this would be the easier route for them than to loan them money?

[jsbach123] 11/9/2015 13:52

Did anyone here go to the AGM?

[jsbach123] 09/9/2015 14:37

reximil read the summary at the top of the page.

Ashok de facto control the company as they own at least 75.1% of the shares now delisted from AIM). They continue to fund it as they have stated (I paraphrase) that they intend Optare t be the hub of their ambitions to be a global player in the market for buses.

Longer-term PIs who supported the company for many years (the share price was more than 10 pence for a time) have effectively lost all the value of their investments.

Fickling the non-Executive Chairman has been paid more than half a million pounds by the company while he has been in office. During this time the company declared (multi)million pound losses every year.

[reximill] 09/9/2015 11:03

Does anyone know the point in which ashok increased their stake from 25% to 75%?

I see they refused an offer 4 years ago for a takeover bidder.

Why do they continue to fund the company but not just take it over themsvelves?

[kimoldfield] 02/9/2015 21:06

Sell a Metrodecker? Are you having a laugh JSB?!:o) Well he did ok at Wrightbus it would seem so maybe Robert Drewery is the man for the job. Good luck to him.

[jsbach123] 02/9/2015 19:16

Optare have appointed a new Commercial Director among whose first tasks will be to oversee customer trials of the Metrodecker. See company website. Perhaps they will sell one before the end of this current financial year.

[jsbach123] 25/8/2015 13:58

Good luck on that one Kim! reximill yes Ashok are continuing to fund, perhaps a combination of factors - I may well be wrong but I seem to remember that some loans/facilities were due to be renewed or paid about this time. However, it seems clear that Optare continues to chalk up a significant monthly loss. I wonder how this will all end - for how long will Ashok's unwillingness to incur 'loss of face' keep them running it at a loss. It is startling though perhaps to some not surprising that they have yet to announce a single sale for the new Metrodecker - 'launched' May 2014 supposedly taking orders from November 2014. The company's recent failures to not win the Nottingham ebus contract and the £19 million order for electric buses for London must have been body blows. Optare as far as I understand are also not providing any electric double decker for trial in London.

Anybody going to the AGM may wish to ask Fickling how he justifies having taken more than £500,000 in salary payments while the company value has been destroyed. They may also wish to ask if Ashok has any regrets at destroying loyal PI shareholder value by delisting to save an estimated £70,000 a year.

[kimoldfield] 24/8/2015 10:40

A large buyout would be nicer! 😀

[reximill] 24/8/2015 09:53

hxxp://www.optare.com/news/

Looks like Ashok are continuing to fund millions to optare....

A little buyout of our shares would be nice!