Nmc Health Share Discussion Threads

[iamgreat1] 17/12/2019 22:49

Sorry new news out will kill it in the morning Tin hats on

[iamgreat1] 17/12/2019 22:49

So we looking at 1100 tomorrow folks

[rabbitfoot1] 17/12/2019 21:09

Interestingly, back in July Jeffreys had also called into question NMC's lease liability reporting: "Jeffreys and HSBC disagree on NMC - Investment bank Jefferies has issued another critical note of NMC Health, reducing its price target again and dissecting its goodwill and lease liability reporting. HSBC, meanwhile, still prefers it in the UAE over Mediclinic, citing demographic changes. NMC Health gives us its rebuttals to Jefferies' note. JULY 10, 2019"

[yertiz] 17/12/2019 21:03

It will take much more than an RNS to undo the damage done by MW. They will have done their homework, explored all the weaknesses and inaccuracies in NMC's business to produce this damning report. Any RNS from NMC will have to be an amazing piece of work, not smoke and mirrors, I simply don't believe they are up to it. Expect more pain tomorrow.

[aquaesulis01] 17/12/2019 20:59

Quite agree md but the key word is IF and I have had enough sleepless nights already

[mister md] 17/12/2019 20:17

if the rebuttal RNS is decent, you may not be able to buy in under 2000p tomorrow morning, could be a long opening auction

[karateboy] 17/12/2019 20:16

Serious allegations by MW. Very different what they said about BUR few months ago. If MW has no evidence this is going to be very bad for them and definitely ending in the court.

[alexka1] 17/12/2019 19:47

Let’s see statement tomorrow and in coming days. I would expect support from activation of share buy back, statement from NMC and potentially for Abu Dhabi to step in given that it’s one of their national champions. Also share is so heavily shorted that this gives it some kind of support, if I were AQR I would close fully and take loads of profits and not risk a huge stock price jump like last time. I wouldn’t be surprised for potential bidders to re emerge and to revive due diligence at this kind of valuation.

[aquaesulis01] 17/12/2019 19:39

What changes in a company’s balance sheet?
IFRS 16 eliminates the classification of leases as either
operating leases or finance leases for a lessee.3
Instead
all leases are treated in a similar way to finance
leases applying IAS 17. Leases are ‘capitalised’ by
recognising the present value of the lease payments
and showing them either as lease assets (right-of-use
assets) or together with property, plant and equipment.
If lease payments are made over time, a company
also recognises a financial liability representing its
obligation to make future lease payments. i.e. recurring rather than non-recurring expenditure

[lionheart69uk1] 17/12/2019 19:37

To the ignorant moron who claims that Muddy Waters never gets it wrong, you clearly have not been taking your medication. The Arabs at NMC will take them to the cleaners.

[aquaesulis01] 17/12/2019 19:27

rabbitfoot, the key muddywaters accusation is:

"In our view, NMC also deliberately understated its debt by approximately $320 million as of FY 2018 by not reporting leases associated with its Aspen Healthcare acquisition as finance leases. "

Now if the $320m is included in the liabilities below no problem; let's hope eh.

Non-current liabilities
Term loans 28 660,835 987,840
Convertible bond and Sukuk 33 783,009 –
Post Employment benefit plans 29 55,137 41,374
Other payables 31 15,689 38,984
Option redemption payable 40 20,179 12,728
Finance lease liabilities 32 2,995 –
Deferred tax liabilities 16 17,745 9,693
1,555,589 1,090,619
Current liabilities
Accounts payable and accruals 30 317,587 209,470
Other payables 31 6,806 18,110
Option redemption payable 40 26,019 26,019
Amounts due to related parties 34 47,737 28,472
Bank overdrafts and other short term borrowings 23 168,950 207,034
Term loans 28 379,919 204,154
Post Employment benefit plans 29 6,549 6,905
Income tax payable 4,812 2,265
Finance lease liabilities 32 1,684 –
Dividend payable 27 – 1,334
960,063 703,763
Total liabilities 2,515,652 1,794,382
TOTAL EQUITY AND LIABILITIES 3,872,415 2,939,008

[this_time_its_different] 17/12/2019 19:11

strong sell, muddy is never wrong, going to go lower.

[rabbitfoot1] 17/12/2019 18:08

@ AquaeSulis01 - they will definitely issue a full rebuttal, there are already indications of the stance they are taking. I, for one, really don't expect the stock to drop further for the reasons I mentioned: very little that MW reported can actually be proven. But even if it does drop further, I felt that the risk/reward was well worth it at such a low price. It will eventually recover sufficiently to enable me to get out without a loss, of this I am certain, hence I will also not be spending any sleepless nights over this : ).

[rabbitfoot1] 17/12/2019 17:58

Indeed, quite a coincidence - or not.

[pakenham] 17/12/2019 17:58

mw will get sued again for baseless report - lacks proper evidence - just heresay. pathetic

[grahamg8] 17/12/2019 17:35

Ironic. NMC agree to pay off $90m of debt on the same day Muddy Waters claim they are so cash strapped that the accounts have been manipulated, and much more beside. Late bounce suggests dead cat on resuscitation. In one of the NMC hospitals no doubt.

[aquaesulis01] 17/12/2019 17:22

Well rabbitfoot I sold my holdings at a loss whilst it still hovered above 2000 and haven't bought back in as too much of a lottery pre RNS which will either give a full rebuttal to the accusations or announce that the CFO will be leaving the company. I wish you and other speculators well but will make a decision re future reinvestment once said RNS has been published; at least I wont have a restless night wondering whether I was about to lose yet more money if the CFO walks tomorrow

[rabbitfoot1] 17/12/2019 17:06

Well, let's see what happened tomorrow. Disclosure: I bought quite a few shares at today's low, not because I like and trust the company - I don't - but in order to lower my average price (which now stands at 23.20) and be able to get out of it entirely as soon as it gets back to that level.

[rabbitfoot1] 17/12/2019 17:03

The report may be quite damning at first read, but they offer no proof that NMC overpaid for assets, and I don’t see how this can be proven. They refer to instances of collusion, but how do you prove this if the sellers of those assets are not family related? What bothers me the most if that they tripled their financial rewards in the space of a year, while the stock has just going down in all that time. The one thing the report does emphasize that I totally agree with is the poor governance and lack of transparency. That is a really big issue which Jeffreys also pointed at in their downgrade of the stock and which makes NMC an easy target for shorts.

[tsmith2] 17/12/2019 16:58

130k bought at £20 just before close

[mister md] 17/12/2019 16:49

hoping for a decent RNS and a shareprice north of 2000p tomorrow

[daneth58] 17/12/2019 16:49

16:35 - 17/12
Buy 1109482 1,747.50p £19,388,197.95
13:07 - 17/12
Buy 546701 2,091.50p £11,434,251.42
10:30 - 17/12
Sell 199870 2,200.00p £4,397,140.00
10:31 - 17/12
Buy 100000 2,200.00p £2,200,000.00
14:42 - 17/12
Sell 84700 1,673.95p £1,417,835.6

Interesting that the biggest trades today on HL were buys the last one of 19 mils worth is encouraging. The market makers could find themselves short

[mattcookson] 17/12/2019 16:42

Wow!! Couldn’t believe the rally in the final 15mins, in a matter of mins jumped from 1450 to 1700. As usual, was busy with work and couldn’t catch it. Hopefully will be able to get in first thing tomorrow AM.