Mporium Share Discussion Threads

[toolsmoker] 21/10/2019 15:03

They are seeing specialist tax consultant on Wednesday maybe not a complete dead duck but lets see

[stocktrend2] 21/10/2019 15:02

Tony what solutions??? The £3.5m is due how will they pay it there is no other solution

[yajnas01] 21/10/2019 14:54

I honestly don't care what toolsmoker has said. if you look at the legislation on lead gen and the exemption for financial services it's not that easy to get the exemption and that's pretty much it

[tonytony4] 21/10/2019 14:54

They are looking for solutions, no formal notification from HMRC just need to hear from the official channels and not just one posters here say. Until then don't believe a word anyone spouts on here.

[stocktrend2] 21/10/2019 14:53

Guess the placees would not put any money of this os the case

[yajnas01] 21/10/2019 14:52

yeah and that's consistent with what I've researched this afternoon... it's actually really not that complex.

cannot actually believe how amateur this is... I can't even take this seriously right now... literally just blown 5k on this. v disappointed

[stocktrend2] 21/10/2019 14:52

Even if this is the casee cant they be put on a payment plan hmrc do allow this if you are strugglong

[amir81] 21/10/2019 14:52

TS i dont believe anything you say wheres your 3 pieces of news gone

[tonytony4] 21/10/2019 14:47

I would rather hear that from Tom. Surely BOD's can not be that neive! wait and see what or if a solution is found.

[toolsmoker] 21/10/2019 14:44

Just heard back it's not good they are liable for the money owed .doesn't look like it will be coming back .I'll try update when get more details

[yajnas01] 21/10/2019 14:42

yeah but would read what I posted.. this is all about what activities MpM were doing and whether they are deemed financial services... and if not the exemption does not apply...

to me this is not financial services. this is just a referral

"If all you do for your 10% is obtain a name/details and then pass these onto the bank/insurer as a hot lead then you are not making any financial type services at all, you are just simply referring customers on. In effect, you are a glorified telesales person/salesman (no offence meant, just want to make sure we understand the difference between providing financial services and working in the financial services sector)."

I am now expecting this is game over based on the above

[tonytony4] 21/10/2019 14:35

The Company is taking specialist advice on the most appropriate course of action in these circumstances. Need more information

[tonytony4] 21/10/2019 14:33

We need to hear from Tom the RNS is confusing. Surely they must have lawyer's on this ASAP.

[stocktrend2] 21/10/2019 14:31

Tony i want this to come back very badly but im being realistic

[stocktrend2] 21/10/2019 14:30

Tony i am upset as much as you but we have to be realistic , what are the possible solutions hmrc dont mess about so its either pay up or shut shop

[tonytony4] 21/10/2019 14:24

Very Strange that people are coming out claiming to have fortold us that this would happen! No one knew this would have even the bod's! Situation is dire but not dead!

The Company will provide an update as soon as possible.

Charles Pendred, chairman of the Company commented: "It is extremely frustrating that this matter has arisen so unexpectedly at a time when the forward vision for the Company looked so promising. The leadership of the Company has changed, the cost base had been substantially reduced, the new strategy with its complementary acquisition was being implemented and current trading was encouraging. The lead generation business with Allay had also ceased. The Board are deeply upset at this outcome and every effort has been, and is being made, to find a solution.

[yajnas01] 21/10/2019 14:24

does anyone know what MPM was doing and if it's anything to do with financial services ultimately? I think they need that to qualify for the VAT exemption

[yajnas01] 21/10/2019 14:22

I think that is pretty clear... I don't think MPM is exempt so it depends on if MPM do anything which is considered as financial services eg credit checks etc

if they are just referring, then it's VAT able I think

[yajnas01] 21/10/2019 14:21

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UKBF Newcomer
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To be VAT exempt, the service offering must be one of financial services/transactions. The legislation is quite lengthy and specific but I'll try to consolidate the logic.

To be a financial service - provision of insurance, loans, similar financial packages have to be offered directly to the customer. Services such as performing credit reference checks, transferring of monies between accounts and offering tailored advice are all considered financial services and are therefore exempt.

Many agents earn their income from leads and receive a commission from the bank/insurer, etc. If the service YOU provide fits in with the descriptions above then your income/commission is exempt.

If all you do for your 10% is obtain a name/details and then pass these onto the bank/insurer as a hot lead then you are not making any financial type services at all, you are just simply referring customers on. In effect, you are a glorified telesales person/salesman (no offence meant, just want to make sure we understand the difference between providing financial services and working in the financial services sector).

So be very clear what you do. If you are a referrer then you are taxable, if you are assisting in the whole process then you are exempt. Many agents will process credit checks on behalf of the bank so that the bank know they've got a very hot lead. Other agents will invite the customer to their offices and help them complete the application forms with the client - this is all exempt.

If you just send forms off in the post and then pass them on to bank, then this is a referral again and taxable.

It is very confusing area of VAT this, primarily becasue bank/insurers are generally VAT exempt and so try to avoid charging it or being charged it - but don't take their word on what the VAT rate should be as you are liable.

Best place to start is look at your contract with your banks/insurers and it'll go some way in explaining what YOU DO for your money and this should then clarify the VAT rate.

hxxps://www.ukbusinessforums.co.uk/threads/dm-iva-leads-vat-exempt.81004/

[yajnas01] 21/10/2019 14:15

but I don't have any accounting or legal background so can't really comment

[yajnas01] 21/10/2019 14:15

i'd say we should all try to just share knowledge - I have none in this area tbh

hxxps://www.ashurst.com/en/news-and-insights/legal-updates/vat-exemption-for-negotiation-of-credit-applies-to-lead-generation-services/

hxxps://www.ukvatadvice.com/vat-exemption-financial-intermediary-services/

to be fair there is something about insurance exemption for VAT

hxxps://www.pinsentmasons.com/out-law/guides/leadx-v-hmrc

[stocktrend2] 21/10/2019 14:14

Looks like we’re stuffed then

[stocktrend2] 21/10/2019 14:14

Looks like we’re stuffed them

[yajnas01] 21/10/2019 14:10

well - to me it's like this. say you file your own personal tax returns and you make a mistake and haven't paid what you are due.

and HMRC think you are due, then you have a big tax bill and could end up bankrupt basically.

it's your responsibility to get a professional to give you that assurance it won't end up like that.

in the event your accountant has messed up you can file a claim against which they have professional indemnity insurance.

but basically it's up to HMRC ultimately. what concerns me is that this is based on other cases so there appears to be a precedent (unlikely to change).

also note how the company statement says the prospects looked good (in the past tense) and how they are upset by this and so on. it looks a bit defeatist.

I think they expect this will be game over.

and when they say they'll look at solutions rather than anything concrete, it suggests they were blindsided totally, and actually probably have no idea how to handle it.

looking at solutions means... I don't know what to do and haven't even got any preliminary ideas ...

i'm not expecting anything here. I think they just have to explain to HMRC what the situation is but ultimately HMRC aren't going to let them off if there is a tax liability just because it would fold the company..

and basically when they say it may be liable, I doubt it means HMRC are unsure. they are sure, it's the company who is unsure. but i'd say HMRC know VAT law better than mporium!