Melrose Industries Share Discussion Threads

[steeplejack] 16/1/2019 11:51

Yes,I agree with all that.The battle was really lost by consecutive UK Governments who moodily agreed to Maastricht and the treaty of Lisbon,as the EEC unashamedly metamorphosed into the EU back in the 1990s.Throw in a dollop of uncontrolled immigration under Blair and the toxin was complete.The EU remains a Franco/German alliance with acolytes,some enjoying,some detesting the gravitational pull.I considered voting leave for a couple of weeks.However,I worry about the economic consequences.The French Revolution occurred after three atrocious harvests.You can't underestimate the mayhem that can result from economic deprivation. Boris's "have your cake and eat it",might in time become analogous to the contrived "let them eat cake"of Marie Antoinette.Thereagain,the latter probably never said that,while the former idiot most certainly did!

[tournesol] 16/1/2019 11:26

One of the things that is consistently overlooked in the whole discussion about Brexit is the counterfactual argument against Remain.

Remain is generally presented as providing certainty, as a known quantity against which the uncertainty of Brexit is compared and contrasted. But the EU is not a known or a knowable quantity. It is not a fixed and unchanging thing. Its history shows that it is rapidly growing and constantly changing in ways which we do not control and cannot significantly influence - and which we did not foresee when we joined.

We originally joined a Common Market with 5 or 6 members and a limited remit - little more than a free trade area. Over time it has changed into a Union with 27 members and a much expanded scope, including freedom of movement, a legal system which can over-rule our own courts, common policies on an ever increasing number of issues, pooled sovereignty in a number of key areas from foreign policy to external trade relations etc etc. One of the biggest single changes was the introduction of a single currency and the monetary union of many of the other members - leaving us isolated and leaving the less powerful countries like Greece with little or no control over their own monetary situation.

The EU now has ambitions for
a) further enlargement
b) further integration of existing members
c) development of an integrated EU armed forces
d) a long list of other projects from space to medicine

If Remainers get their way and the referendum is over-turned and we stay in the EU - what exactly is it that we will be staying in? A union of 27 members? or might that get bigger? Might Ukraine or Turkey join the party with all the problems that would entail? Could we exercise any influence if Germany and France wanted such a development? What would the EU's stated goal of "ever-closer union" mean? Are we going to place our armed forces under the control of the EU? What happens if Greece goes bust? Or Italy or Spain? What happens if France continues to flout EU rules on fiscal constraints? What happens if the Europhiles get their way and the financial committments of the member states get pooled with joint and several liability? What is the impact on us if Germany decides unilaterally to admit another million migrants? and if once admitted those migrants decide to use their entitlement to freedom of movement to leave Germany and settle elsewhere in the EU?

What happens if the EU decides that Gibraltar should be handed to Spain, Jersey to France and the Shetlands to Norway? (those latter 2 possibilities might seem extreme but so do many of the worst case scenarios of Brexit)

Of course I'm not saying that any of these things is likely. I'm saying that there is just as much uncertainty about Remain as there is about Brexit and that in a Remain scenario we do not get to make our own decisions.

I voted for Brexit because I prefer to be autonomous. I prefer to face uncertainty knowing that we can make our own decisions and decide our own course. I do not want us to become a disenfranchised and marginalised province of a european super state.

And that's before we get onto the complete absence of any semblance of democracy in the EU…..

[steeplejack] 16/1/2019 10:27

One paper that has been consistently objective about Brexit has been the Financial Times.It points out the potentially adverse economic consequences of leaving the EU and the absurdly rose tinted projections re forging our own trade deals.

We will almost certainly leave the EU because the majority accepted a fanciful vision of Brexit.Lafarge banging on about how Germany had to sell their BMWs (incidentally BMW sells near three times more cars in China than the U.K.)to Liam Fox saying,”The free trade agreement that we will have with the European Union should be one of the easiest in human history.We are already beginning with zero tariffs,and ...”.Not everyone was wholly Brexiteer or wholly Remain but they all have one thing in common,the real consequences of Brexit were doctored by both sides to suit their purposes.

No one had a bloody clue how things would turn out,so they engaged in narcissistic self posturing and that continues.

[gettingrichslow] 16/1/2019 00:01

Minny, Thickos go to Pontypridd Poly. And numpties buy UK-focussed shares while simultaneously stating Brexit is going to be a disaster for the UK. You qualify on both counts.

[meanwhile] 15/1/2019 23:22

Two and a half years of discussion and we still have the options, in equal measure,
to just leave, stay fully in, go half out and have another vote on it.

Imagine a jury in a murder trial sitting for this length of time and then coming back to the judge with this conclusion.

[gettingrichslow] 15/1/2019 23:02

Odds on a Leave on WTO rules deal have shortened since 8pm. Good. Let's get on with it and let the fearful snowflakes like Minny go into their little panics.

[jackdaw4243] 15/1/2019 21:53

Phew !!

That was a close vote.

[brexitplus] 15/1/2019 21:45

MW, perhaps we can have your opinion on the vote this evening in the Commons. Are you happy?

[brexitplus] 15/1/2019 17:41

Jackdaw, have you got your “yellow jacket” ready.

[jackdaw4243] 15/1/2019 17:22

Min

I am out 80% apart from some financials.I think this has moved a little ,Its not "Remain" or "No deal" its the Mrs May's handling of the whole situation. Painted herself into a corner and the paint is not going to dry. I think history will say she followed her close adviser at No 10 without including the politicians of her own party.
I unloaded 16 positions at 1600 hrs value over £100k hope to buy back before Friday.

[minerve] 15/1/2019 17:20

Marvellous! 😂

Billicious! ROFLMAO!

[brexitplus] 15/1/2019 17:16

Home made chilli. Chump.

[minerve] 15/1/2019 16:59

Will you let us know when you are back in the market? ROFLMAO!

[minerve] 15/1/2019 16:58

He he he he he he ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!

What's for dinner chump?

[minerve] 15/1/2019 16:54

This thread should be renamed: 'Old farts attempting to prove they still have a contribution in life'. LOL

[minerve] 15/1/2019 16:46

brexit voted for, well, Brexit, and yet he feels the need to be 80% in cash!

ROFLMAO!

The cheese-brained numpty can't even put his money where his mouth is! LOL

WHAT A FRAUD!