Manganese Bronze Share Discussion Threads

[crystalclear] 27/11/2010 14:48

There were plans in China for a national taxi franchise where people all over China can dial the same number for a local taxi, a bit like dialling 0800-TAXI-TAXI using the letters on your keypad. The people behind the idea were the Chinese car maker behind the Londont Taxi, so I can imagine them insisting that the local taxis used in the franchise are theirs, ie Shanghai London Taxis. And if they make a saloon car based on similar a similar chassis, production line, etc, then there is a huge potential.

So it irritates me when someone knocks the share saying UK taxi sales have fallen. Ultimately, car ownership in the UK will fall due to the increasing costs of motoring, and taxis sales will take off, but even that is missing the point that I think the future of the company lies in what happens to taxi sales abroad.

I think this can easily all go belly up and it would be very unwise to put money into it that can't afford to be lost or that forms a large percentage of a portfolio. But I think it is a long term punt with upside potential.

There used to be a huge short on this - something like 10% of the company - I don't know if that has been unwound yet. I sometimes wonder if the people criticising the UK taxi sales vociferously on here are the same people that are short.

[boldtrader] 27/11/2010 09:13

Thanks for your reply. I think I will dig about some more, i believe China is up and coming big style,many richer folk on the streets and Taxis will become an affordable way of life. i notice that an Arab state ordered 200 awhile ago that order being filled in 2009.Could there be more to come?
London has been hard hit due to the economic situation here and globally but things will begin to turn around and new cabs will be needed,they do get some hammer!As for electric I agree not at this time in it's present form.
I like the new Chinese directors coming on board,adds substance. I dont say this will be a quick turn around unless they do recieve a bid in which case at this price there maybe a quick pay day!Worth an initial punt?? Maybe. cheers.

[crystalclear] 26/11/2010 17:45

I think the Shanghai operation has a couple of saloon cars in the line up.
So as far as I can tell, long term it is a question of survival and dilution versus potential growth. But all the postings on here seem to have a very backward looking historical view of the company, constantly talking about taxi sales in the UK.

It seems to me to be a punt to stick a bit of spare change into, and just wait and see what happens. Maybe you lose your spare change, and maybe in a long time you have something worthwhile.

Time cost averaging can be a good tool with a share like this. Since its hard to know where the bottom is, picking up a few at long intervals can be beneficial. Eg if some are bought at £2 and some at £1 and then some at 50p and some around 25p, then you'd get so many shares at 25p
that the average price is low despite some having been bought expensively at £2.

=

I wouldn't put too much hope on electric taxis. Jeremy Clarkson on Top Gear flattened the battery on the electric Lotus (called a Tesla) in under an hour, and it had expensive battery technlogy (over £100,000 for the car) that taxi drivers couldn't afford, and the Tesla has a range of 200 miles (downhill).

I think politicians are afraid to say "peak oil" out loud and so they say "global warming" as a sort of euphemism for it, in the same way that they used to avoid saying "nuclear power" and said "hydrogen fuel cells" instead, knowing full well that to produce any significant quantity of hydrogen they would need nuclear energy for the electrolysis of water.

[boldtrader] 26/11/2010 12:44

doing some research on MNGS I notice they reported a tie in with TAN in 2008 regarding manufacture of the TX4E, any posters know what happened to that deal?
China is reported to be the place to beinvested right now,Geely own Volvo and are the largest car manufacturer in china and with a new 4 door model rumoured to be on the cards for 2012 and the Daily mail article this seems to be a fair revival play. Any investors here any insights for or against? Thanks and cheers.

[davidosh] 24/11/2010 08:24

Sounds a made up ramp to me just to help a few get out would be my guess. Geely could have injected a few million at 25p and obtained the majority of the stock so why would they want to pay 70p ?

[alunmorris] 24/11/2010 08:19

'[Geely] still desperately wants to take full control of the Coventry-based company. A £22.5m cash bid worth 75p a share will be tabled soon. Geely will keep the London quote and invest millions in the group's Coventry site'



I'm still short but I'll take the risk that Geely need not pay 75p.
£22.5m = 98.5% of the shares. How can MNGS remain listed if the share capital is owned by Geely?

[davidosh] 04/11/2010 18:20

IN August they said....

Manganese Bronze, the leading manufacturer of the distinctive London black taxi, announces it has been informed that the Board of Geely Automobile Holdings Limited ("Geely") has decided not to proceed with the Proposed Placing.

Geely has confirmed its commitment to the joint venture with Manganese Bronze, Shanghai LTI Automobile Components Company Ltd ("SLTI"), and it has confirmed that future operational plans remain unaffected. SLTI will continue to supply Manganese Bronze with components for its UK manufacturing operation as well as producing lower cost London taxis for international sale.


Now Geely get two places on the Board. Sounds like they are unimpressed with management here and are tightening the grip before giving any thought to refinancing !!

[protean] 04/11/2010 16:14

The news hasn't just by itself I'd imagine since the price has been rising beforehand. Just a load of people buying back in after the retracement.

Possibly bid rumours around again too.

[alunmorris] 04/11/2010 16:14

Appointments: ex-Geely man as Dept CE and the executive Deputy General Manager of Shanghai LTI Automobile Components as non-exec.

Why has this increased the value of MNGS by 30%?

[crystalclear] 04/11/2010 15:55

The first cars, in the late 1800s were electric. We switched to the internal combustion engine because that provided better performance for a given price.

There are still electric cars about, like the Tesla (a modified Lotus), which can go 200 miles downhill on a single charge of the batteries, but it costs about 5 times the price of the Lotus, and you'll need two, one to drive while the other recharges (as Jeremy Clarkson showed on Top Gear by running it flat in - was it under an hour?).

With a home windmill, the Top Gear team said you could recharge the Tesla in 2 months, if the wind blew, but at the time of filming, they had windstill.
People are also working on non-rechargable batteries in an attempt to improve efficiency. The non-rechargable batteries are called fuel cells as you need to keep topping them up. Eg a lead acid battery would be a lead acid fuel cell, if you kept adding lead and acid and removed the waste.

[hy3nas4] 03/11/2010 16:25

As said in header;

'An added financial attraction is that they use diesel power which is very unusual in the US.'

"It's a lot cheaper to operate," Mr Pickering says.
---

Would electric engine be cheaper over life time of Taxi's ?
Are Manganese Bronze trying out Electric engines ?
US gov grants ?

[crystalclear] 29/10/2010 00:00

There used to be a huge short position in these, I don't know if that is still the case.
(Huge is easy to say, but a bit meaningless, I think it was of the order of 10% of the company.)

[attrader] 28/10/2010 20:10

strange, cant be recover. Guardian puts it bid rumours ...

Black cab-maker Manganese Bronze was soaring again this afternoon, following persistent rumours of a takeover.

Shares in the company was up as much as 30% at one stage, dropping back to 87p, a 24% rise as of this afternoon. Today's high would value the company at £27.4m.

There appeared to be little to immediately back up the surge. The company reported decent numbers last Wednesday, with UK sales up 11%.

Since then it has surged, from a low before the numbers of about 30p to its current position, almost three times that.

There have been suggestions that 20% shareholder Geely, China's largest privately-owned carmaker, was ready to make a move, but Manganese has distanced itself from the rumours

[goliard] 28/10/2010 11:26

Powering ahead again, not sure if it is a bid or just a recovery, but I wish I had bought some!

[toffeeman] 27/10/2010 10:40

Like they did in Beijing?!!

[gordon brown] 26/10/2010 15:07

My son bought into these yesterday in the belief that the Olympics will have a beneficial effect on Black Taxi sales.

[goliard] 21/10/2010 13:01

Now even more strange. The only thing that occurs to me is that they were careful to say that they were not in talks with Geely, but left out the 'normal' addition of 'or any other party'. I guess something must be going on.

[goliard] 21/10/2010 07:41

Agreed. Very strange. Should be an interesting opening here. Neutral or cautious IMS, but without Geely interest it is hard to see what will prop these up. Also, no explanation as to why Geely did not complete the proposed placing, which must be worrying.

[spectoacc] 21/10/2010 07:33

Appalling that they couldn't get that RNS out yesterday!

"In the light of yesterday's comments in the press, the Board wishes to confirm that it is not currently in discussions with Geely regarding any proposed placing or offer for the Group.."

At least it's not another profit warning - everything seems to read "in-line with management expectations", with a mixture of positives & negatives rather than the usual.

Surely the time to RNS is on the day of the false news, with the shares up 40%..

[spectoacc] 20/10/2010 16:30

Agreed @David; though article saying they'd take a controlling stake but leave it listed, so existing s/holders would still get the upside.

Notwithstanding that, has been no confirmation RNS so it may not even be true. And if it is, have to agree with you that the market price should be below the controlling stake price, since you pay a premium to control.

We'll see..

[davidosh] 20/10/2010 12:10

They need to do a placing or be taken out by the chinese major shareholder IMO...there are no other options and time will be running out. Not sure why anyone would want to buy these shares at 30% above the rumoured cash injection price though ?? The dilution is going to be enormous.

[alunmorris] 20/10/2010 07:54

35p bid from Geely?
'...whispers suggest 20 per cent-shareholder Geely, China's largest privately-owned carmaker and owner of Volvo Cars, is on the verge of paying around 35p a share in cash to take control of the Coventry-based company...Geely apparently wants to tie up a deal before Prime Minister David Cameron visits China next month...The plan is apparently for Geely to keep MB's quote on the London Stock Exchange and to invest millions in the group's Coventry site'

[m.t.glass] 13/10/2010 09:50

Trades this morning all red ones.

[davidosh] 13/10/2010 09:19

Has anyone seen the monthly taxi sales figures ?

The share price is starting to suggest there is little hope here.

[peterninefive] 13/8/2010 13:18

Why would anyone still choose to buy a TX4 when we can buy a Vito?

Too few British taxi drivers want the product.
Chinese drivers don't want the product.
The Chinese don't want the company.
Liquidators in this afternoon or next week?
Then Geely pick up the ashes like Rover?