Land Securities Share Discussion Threads

[jonwig] 16/11/2007 12:07

Found it: Empty Property Rate Relief - new rules to hit commercial property?

But empty isn't a problem for the big caps, I'd have thought. More like partial lets, and it's unclear how these are affected.



For LAND, void levels are below the national average at 4%. I don't think we're talking big stuff here with the larger cap shares.

[tara7] 16/11/2007 12:00

phone up your local council, from next year rates to be paid on all empty property.

[jonwig] 16/11/2007 11:57

Chairman, sscrabble - TRY updates daily - the 14/11 NAV was 209.7p, so with share price at 175.5p, that's 16% discount.
They also buy back on a regular basis.
I've a thread on TRY but no posts so far!

tara7 - poll tax on empty comm prop?? I don't understand - can you provide a link?

[watwungyi] 16/11/2007 11:49

all the way to sub 1200 or even lower by Christmas.

[tara7] 16/11/2007 11:47

Poll tax to be paid on all empty comm property, from next year, that will mean yet more forced sellers.[ or large bills for property firms to pay each month.]

[sscrabble] 16/11/2007 11:46

jonwig
what about TRY which you have looked at previously - have you re-assessed them?

[chairman2] 16/11/2007 11:45

Jon

good idea

a £100 a week investment via a savings
scheme gives the pound-cost averaging argument a
real test

when was the last valuation of the TR trust? is
it updated weekly?

[jonwig] 16/11/2007 11:42

...calling bottoms is a v. difficult art.

A very tempting one, unfortunately!

One 'solution' would be a regular investment in T R Property IT, which has large holdings in shares such as LAND, and is itself on a ~15% discount to its NAV as calculated from the share prices. A 'double discount'.

[chairman2] 16/11/2007 11:31

Losses - its my number one niggle at the moment

there is going to be a guranteed 25% turnaround in these - but when
and from what point will it start

the classic advice would be to start building a position
'cos calling bottoms is a v. difficult art.

[sscrabble] 16/11/2007 11:07

Do these guys get paid for the accuracy of their forecasts?

Independent:

The Investment Column: Land Securities' sell-off has been over-cooked
Morgan Sindall; Afren
Edited by Andrew Dewson
Published: 07 August 2007

Our view: Buy

Current price: 1,662p

Perhaps the euphoria of the conversion to Real Estate Investment Trusts created unrealistic expectations and sent share prices to artificially high levels - but has the sell-off been just as overcooked?

Shares in Land Securities, the UK's largest landlord, have fallen almost 30 per cent since January, while the commercial property market itself continues to thrive.

Yesterday's deal to finalise a 20-year lease on the remains of its Bankside development to Royal Bank of Scotland, almost 400,000 square feet, shows that demand for high-quality commercial space in and around the City is as strong as ever.

Land Securities has a portfolio worth about £14.8bn, and even if its value is not rising as fast as it was a year ago it is far from falling - conservative forecasts are for its value to rise by at least seven per cent this year.

The business is split into three main parts - London commercial, mainly in the City and West End; retail, most of which is in prime sites in major cities including the Bullring in Birmingham; and property partnerships which works with private and public partners to manage and outsource property. Far from being simply an accumulator of property assets, Land Securities is among the most active managers in the sector.

The benefits of conversion to Real Estate Investment Trust status also remain intact - if there were no real benefits for the company and shareholders there wouldn't have been such a rush to convert.

The shares have been sold down because of a combination of factors - profit taking, rising interest rates and fears that the property boom has to end at some time. However, there is a big difference between the commercial property market and the housing market.

Land Securities is a well managed, diversified property giant and with the stock trading on a 28.8 per cent discount to forecast 2008 diluted net asset value, provided there is no major economic slowdown this is an excellent buying opportunity.

[losses] 15/11/2007 20:05

ch2. what u consider reasonable to get in. some real stupid ppl appearing here expecting share price of 2.60

[tara7] 15/11/2007 18:14

Yep me to at £2.60. guys, long way to fall yet.

[sambessey] 15/11/2007 18:00

I'll consider a position in this below 1300p. See you then.

[chairman2] 15/11/2007 13:53

anything 'could' create positive shareholder value

compared to where we are now.

[losses] 15/11/2007 09:53

Land Securities to split into three after slide in shares
By Karen Attwood
Published: 15 November 2007
Land Securities, the UK's largest real estate investment trust (Reit), is to split into three separate quoted companies.

The three-way merger into retail, London property and Trillium, its property management division, would not take place for at least 12 months, the chief executive Francis Salway said yesterday, adding that it would enable a more focused property business.

The move comes after a fall in its shares cut the company's market value by £3.6bn.

"The rationale for this plan is not linked to short-term market movements, but the evolution of the group, and giving best value to shareholders," Mr Salway said. "It is very important for the business to come to the right long-term strategic decision, which we have done."

Ian Ellis will continue to head Trillium, which is worth around £2bn, while Mike Hussey will become head of the London business, which has £8.3bn in gross assets. Mr Salway will continue at the helm of the £6bn retail business.

While the three divisions had performed well under the current structure, "the business models are distinctive", the company said. "They operate in market segments with different characteristics and they will be able to adopt a capital structure best suited to their respective sectors' outlook," the company said. Although some analysts have argued that a break-up would destroy shareholder value, others believe a split was inevitable given the fall in the share price and is the best way forward for the business.

The news came as the company reported better-than-expected figures for the six months to the end of September, with a fall in pre-tax profit from £1.18bn to £375m due to a smaller valuation surplus. The group posted a 0.9 per cent increase in the value of its investment portfolio to £15bn, despite reporting falls of 1.5 per cent in the value of its shopping centre business and a 3.9 per cent drop in the value of its retail warehouse portfolio.

The value of real estate shares has fallen 36 per cent this year and analysts say Reits will only survive if they specialise. British Land, which is to report today, has seen its share price slide 44 per cent.

Analysts at JP Morgan said a lot of work still needs to be done, but said a break-up at Land Securities could "create positive shareholder value".

[hybrasil] 14/11/2007 18:54

No stop loss rather silly!

[losses] 14/11/2007 12:09

hybrasil, blimey you must already be showing a loss over £9K. Hope you had a stop loss which kicked in.

[losses] 14/11/2007 10:12

hybrasil, shouldn't buy any unless it starts to come out of the downward trend.

[losses] 14/11/2007 08:16

downtrend is still intact :-(

[losses] 14/11/2007 08:10

Back towards 1800 hopefully.

[call-logger] 14/11/2007 08:09

Losses, that figure was out of date two minutes after you posted!

Edit: Actually probably 58 minutes before

[hybrasil] 14/11/2007 08:08

had to buy in based on that news.Bought 10k at 16.10

[losses] 14/11/2007 08:06

Call-logger read the second line mate Land is 29% discount to NAV

[call-logger] 14/11/2007 08:05

Sod GPE, you've got results, demergers and joint ventutes to digest (links in header)

[losses] 14/11/2007 07:58

London-focused property group Great Portland trades at a 19% discount to NAV. That is a premium to Land Securities (LSE: LAND.L - news) ' 29% discount to NAV and British Land (LSE: BLND.L - news) 's 54% discount, but specialist Reits such as GPE should continue to outperform. Hold on says the Times.