Jubilee Metals Share Discussion Threads

[plat hunter] 22/7/2019 11:57

Very true sleeven

[plat hunter] 22/7/2019 11:49

Sorry Goldi, however i feel you are misinterpreting the structure of the hernic relationship.If costs are recoverable from a 3rd party then the 3rd party are paying for it.

[goingforarun] 22/7/2019 11:37

Goldibucks, if you feel like this then move on?

[goldibucks] 22/7/2019 11:32

JLP manage the operations and provide the financing by borrowing at loan shark rates of 12%-15% or diluting their shareholders. No IP is getting licensed. If it was, we’d be making a lot more money.

JLP have just about recovered their investment on Hernic with a bit of profit on top having operated under the cloud of a 2 year business rescue and soon they’ll be handing over 85% of the earnings to Hernic according to Shard. It’s a 5hitty business model that generates almost no long term profit for shareholders.

They need a better business model. Hopefully, Kabwe will provide that.

[plat hunter] 22/7/2019 10:17

Its quite simple really Goldi.JLP provide a turn key and finance solution for 3rd party providers without the means to execute the process technology. Thus creating more opportunities to collect from smaller and less profitable operations than just relying on trying to get a deal with a big boyYou proved my point with your own contradiction.

[goingforarun] 22/7/2019 09:48

AcesHi, after being in this for years, never expected this to explode upwards! Just see this as building a good steady company with increasing earnings? Steady increase in share price would be a nice return?

[1madmarky] 22/7/2019 09:35

Did the sable plant have debt?

[eblitz1] 22/7/2019 09:29

Hi goldi
You beat me to it with regards Hernic, and your assesment of JM is not wrong
The only other area to mention is that with Northampton now churning and plat to
Together with Kabwe and other Sable add on’s the company SHOULD be making very good
Profits and free cash flow. I am not quite sure of the tax situation though.
With these profits the share price should go up especially if metals keep going north.
However I did get into this share hoping that at least 10p would be hit
I must admit to being a bit worn down by what ie going on and maybe I’m dreaming
Good luck to all

[sleveen] 22/7/2019 09:23

Tomarto, tormayto

[goldibucks] 22/7/2019 09:06

Hernic was funded by JLP through debt and the sale of Middelburg. The agreement with Hernic allowed them to recover their investment plus X% before sharing most of the profit but JLP put the cash down initially.

[plat hunter] 22/7/2019 08:48

Goldi..Hernic was funded by the 3rd party.. See profit share agreement.

[aceshi] 22/7/2019 08:42

Goldi The most rational take on in investing in JLP, that I've heard in over 10 years. Anything other than the tedious growth we have become accustomed to, should be seen as a bonus. This will never be a ticket to overnight wealth, contrary to what a few here believe, or try and sell.

[frogkid] 22/7/2019 07:53

Cheers Goldi

[1madmarky] 22/7/2019 07:41

Just shows that we should be doing rather well. Just need the company to tell us so.

[goldibucks] 22/7/2019 07:29

“Begs the question why you are invested.“ For the annualisaion of existing earning streams like PlatCro chrome, the conversion of PlatCro PGMs and Kabwe into earnings. They have a lot going on, reported net profits are only going in one direction. There are a lot of bull points. I just don’t think IP is one of them at the moment.

[frogkid] 22/7/2019 06:31

Interesting viewpoint Goldi. Begs the question why you are invested. And how they managed to get the instis on board. Let's not forget Tjate though. The reason I got involved in the first place. An increase in share price of Pt makes Tjate value considerably higher than the zero currently attached to it. That could be the 5 bagger. For me this just has to hit 10p to make it all worthwhile and if it makes 20% pa to get there then my money is well invested. It is dead money in my ISA so not missed. ATBFrog

[1madmarky] 22/7/2019 06:28

Some valid points in there goldi, however "JLP seem unable to persuade miners to outsource their waste portfolio management to them, and that’s just acting as a project manager and/or operator."

- well that is the plan. DCM fine chrome should be nicely profitable by now. This adds additional evidence to a major that JLP are capable of delivering what they say.
You also have to look at it from a competitive point of view. If one of the majors allows a young upstart company into the market place by signing an agreement for all their tailings. That small inconsequential company is no longer inconsequential. You have given it the financial injection it needs. If that company really does have a technological edge, then it will be able to produce at a lower cost than the majors. Thus you have created another competitor. JLP'S advantage is that it's small without the mining legacy hanging over it. It is positioning itself as environmentally friendly operator, that will help clean up legacy issues. This will make it a tough competitor in the future. It just takes one major to sign up and start seeing the benefits, the others will have no choice but to follow suit. Going to be interesting... fingers crossed GLA

[goldibucks] 22/7/2019 00:21

They spent £13m building the processing plant at Hernic. If they were selling IP, why didn’t Mitsubishi fund that CAPEX?

JLP are the financiers and operators of Hernic. They won a tender process to do it. If what they are doing at Hernic relied on their unique IP, why did they need to tender for it in the first place?

DCM is loss making so not much of an advert for JLP IP.

How much have JLP made selling IP to Star Zinc?

How much money has fine chrome made? How much is it going to make? Not much according to Shard. How many third parties have they licensed it to?

How much money did they make from con roast?

IP can be licensed, you can sit back and take a royalty for doing nothing. When have JLP done that?

I don’t see the IP story here. Northam could process the PlatCro PGMs at Eland just as JLP could process Hernic PGMs in the plant they built.

JLP seem unable to persuade miners to outsource their waste portfolio management to them, and that’s just acting as a project manager and/or operator.

Unless they can license IP or win multiple outsourcing contracts, I can’t see where a ten bag is coming from. Their current business model of buying increasingly large piles of tailings and/or plant to process it, diluting the cr@p out of shareholders, leaking margin all over the place, and taking 3-4 years to make any money each time is not going to set the world of shareholder value creation alight anytime soon! :-)

[plat hunter] 21/7/2019 23:14

You mean like Hernic, DCM, Star Zinc?Sorry, where exactly are JLP not offering their services to 3rd parties

[goldibucks] 21/7/2019 21:09

"Sable is the monetization of JLP's intellectual property." Pie in the sky Plat! :-) I'm not convinced they have any intellectual property. If they did, they wouldn't need to dilute shareholders to buy tailings (Platcro PGMs, Kabwe), acquire plant (Sable), or buy earnings (Platcro chrome).

They could offer their services to 100s of miners in return for access to tailings with the miner funding CAPEX, and take an X% share of profits when costs have been recovered.

They said they were showcasing fine chrome and tendering for waste portfolio management contracts in January but nothing has been announced. That seems to be how things have rolled for 17 years. All talk, no delivery.

Their business model (for the last 5 years) has been to buy tailings and processing plant using shares and debt whilst taking years to make money from it. To profit from that you have buy into the fatigue it causes and wait for existing earnings to get annualised and the pipeline to turn into earnings (if it ever does). The monetization of patience! :-)

I don't agree with either the extreme bear or bull arguments on JLP. The bears won't accept that earnings get annualised, pipelines turns into earnings, and they might end up making more than the value of initial dilution and debt from projects like Kabwe.

On the flipside, I don't see JLP the way Losta sees it, about to ten bag. On the their current trajectory, that's not going to happen. They don't have the business model for it. At best, they could start funding projects from existing cash flows but they take years to get a project up-and-running and while they are doing that the market will deduct what they spend from their market capitalisation while disregarding earnings more than 12 months out.

I think Kabwe will only take JLP to 4p-5p. Having to pay 35%-40% tax will kill the golden goose. The temptation will be to transfer price profits back to the UK or SA to use accumulated losses but that risks a spat with the Zambian government.

For JLP to grow the market capitalisation beyond £100m they need to do 6 things;

1) Stop issuing shares and start selling intellectual property (if they have any, I don't think they do)
2) Fund new projects 100% from cash flow (to capture the financing margin they are currently leaking).
3) Acquire tailings they can process through existing plant or plant they can use to process existing tailings (having to buy both for each new project kills margins and drags out timelines)
4) Reduce the time it takes to process tailings from acquisition to less than 12 months (unless they can do this new projects will continue to be a drag on the share price).
5) Improve the quality of their financial reporting. It's inconsistent (quarterly to monthly to quarterly to six monthly in the last 12-18 months), poor quality (the last 2 project updates have been dire and impossible to forecast anything from). They should be reporting earnings by project for each quarter to calendarised dates.
6) Improve the quality of their communication. Director's Talk is amateurish ("what's next for Jubilee Leon"), Leon is wooden ("of course there's the vanadiums, the leads, the zincs". The only useful source of information about Jubilee are the the Shard notes and we get those 1-2 months after they get published.

[plat hunter] 21/7/2019 19:48

If you had 6 million quid, you'd be wise to set it aside and allow the interest to supplement your other means of wealth generation.

[scrappycat] 21/7/2019 19:23

I doubt the recent II buyer(s) shares those feelings !!!!!

[kryptonsnake] 21/7/2019 19:04

TEST FEED LOLsss


6 million tons of tailings at Kabwe and this is just test feed? What do you think they are going to treat more of. Tailings from miles away or tailings that are sat on the ground right next door

Plat Hunter and his wisdom strikes again


LOLsss