Fisher (james) & Sons Share Discussion Threads

[bouleversee] 11/11/2020 21:32

Manipulation. I think you are right. I couldn't see any logical reason why they had come down so much. I used to do pretty well with shares but I am not a trader and I can't cope with all the yo-yoing we get these days. It's just gambling.

[emeraldzebra] 11/11/2020 20:31

bouleversee. - i think it can partly be explained by the advent of shorters, day traders / algorithm programmes - 'smashing' a price down in order to buy back 'cheap'. In a relatively illiquid stock like this, its surprisingly easy to do. The playing field has changed.

[bouleversee] 11/11/2020 18:32

How do you explain these dramatic drops and rises in such short order? I can understand the rise better than the drop.

[bottomfisher] 11/11/2020 16:28

Mildly reassuring to see the wife of the finance director topping up the family stake with real money rather than exercising nil cost share options which do nothing to align an executive's interests with those of small shareholders. As a result the FD, whose family has close to 75,000 shares, is the only FSJ director who can seriously claim to have any ‘skin in the game’.

Three of the five non-executives, who have been on the board for years, own no shares in James Fisher despite receiving annual fees of between £44,000 and £61,000. Malcolm Paul, chairman, who joined the board in 2011, owns 13,000 shares which are worth little more than half his £205,000 annual fee (which rose 31% in 2019). Justin Atkinson, the only other non-exec with a stake in the business, owns 3150 shares, which are worth less than half his £65,000 annual fee.

Compare the fees and share ownership of the James Fisher non-execs with that of a blue chip company like Unilever. The latter’s chairman is paid around £750,000 a year and the basic fee for its non-execs is around £100,000 pa. The really big difference is in the share ownership as a percentage of non-exec fees which is disclosed in the annual report. It ranges from 101% to 369% for all but two of the dozen or so non-execs.

If only Fisher's non-execs could show the same sort of commitment to their company as Unilever's board, then it might just be possible to shrug off last week's depressing trading update as a temporary setback rather than a sign that all is not well inside FSJ's engine room.

[bouleversee] 11/11/2020 14:31

Illis -

Would you like to manage my portfolio? I made a small top up of SMT yesterday at 1016 (as it had done so well for me this year) but it has hardly moved whereas FSJ has soared since your purchase. Oh well, at least my and my family's existing FSJ holdings will have recovered to the same degree as well. No doubt if I had bought more it would have gone the other way.

[mike bulldog] 11/11/2020 13:56

Porsche you're a clown , nothing under the bonnet, see today's rise nufsaid.
!) We will always need engineers, Manufacturing is an essential Bread and Butter for the economy.
2) Why would i want to buy over valued American Stocks on a high P/E, I will stick to what i know
3) Woodford , yes i agree he was put under strict rules by St James Place...due to his under preformance.
4) Covid is a plague on the Whole world.


This is what he wrote.

Porshe1945....it already is out of fashion, it might be needed but it has little growth and thin profits, buy Apple and Amazon and sleep at night, these shares have lost half their value, more in fact, that is a scary investment, who needs it? Trouble is with the ftse is its full of growth-less stocks, declining business models, its why Woodford destroyed his investors, its been left behind, it isnt just brexit thats sucked the life out of U.K. then covid, the companies themselves are a problem.

[emeraldzebra] 11/11/2020 13:21

Roddy - Porsche makes some useful points of which to take occasional note - but i see his contributions quite regularly on the Aston Martin thread and from his comments there and here - for reasons best known to himself, he is emphatically not a great supporter of the UK in general. Remarkably unpatriotic and something of a 'remoaner', his commentary is constantly critical of the 'Tories' and betrays rather a bitter and resentful anti British standpoint. It is almost as if he has already written us off as a sovereign power - confident and assured enough to take care of our own future. All this seems out of step with the national mood. There is no doubt that Covid could have been handled better. But it is easy to forget that France and Germany and many other places that he seem to have great love for - are locked down too ! Needless to say - I do not share his pessimism and see our glory days as VERY much in front of us ! GLA.

[roddiemac2] 11/11/2020 12:08

Porsche 1945,

I will stick with FSJ because I think I understand the business model and the potential. What has "fashion" got to do with a company`s potential? ---No need to answer that one. I understand your take on the UK in general, but it is not all doom and gloom.

Illis,

Yes, I think we will not see acquisitions for some time .

Debt:- yes, ---needs watching. Debt is the underlying problem in so many companies.

[illiswilgig] 11/11/2020 11:47

Yes, better than no directors buying. And the PCS to the FD. Finance Directors not known for splashing the cash just make a point. The new(ish) CEO bought at around 1150 if I remember correctly.

With my captain hingsight glasses firmly on I noticed that the shareprice bottomed - at least temporarily - at 737p, spookily close to my predicted 742p value. Having opening my mouth I added some money by buying a nominal 257shares but missed the bottom and bought at 762p.

cheers

Illis

[our haven] 11/11/2020 11:46

Same thing bouleversee in real terms.

[bouleversee] 11/11/2020 08:57

It was PCA to director but still a good sign.

[our haven] 11/11/2020 07:19

Good to see director buying at these levels.

[porsche1945] 10/11/2020 14:22

...it already is out of fashion, it might be needed but it has little growth and thin profits, buy Apple and Amazon and sleep at night, these shares have lost half their value, more in fact, that is a scary investment, who needs it? Trouble is with the ftse is its full of growth-less stocks, declining business models, its why Woodford destroyed his investors, its been left behind, it isnt just brexit thats sucked the life out of U.K. then covid, the companies themselves are a problem.

[mike bulldog] 10/11/2020 12:42

Cheers , and Good Luck.

[mike bulldog] 10/11/2020 12:40

Shares were black now red , sorry .
Im am an Engineer , the world can't function without the service and manufacturing industry , it will never go out of fashion.
Only 50.5 million shares in issue , once we get back to normal this will recover , Its just a short term blip.

[mike bulldog] 10/11/2020 12:36

Big Buy 669,91 at 10:17 for 87,800 share , well over sold imho

[porsche1945] 10/11/2020 12:22

Been in and out of this company a few times around the 11 mark for trading, was not in at mo for heavy drop thank god, I dont like it anymore, it isnt a growth company and its not a dividend company, the risk is all to the downside. Buying this sort of stuff on a hated index like the ftse 350 in a selfharming brexit/covid basket case like the U.K. is just too risky these days, I would say take the hit, get out, and recycle into S&P trackers and quality EM stocks with growth where you can sleep at night. I think Fisher is a bit like UK in general, best days are long gone.

[bouleversee] 10/11/2020 12:22

A long way off their year high of 2190. Can't see them getting back to that in a hurry.

[mike bulldog] 10/11/2020 10:55

bought into FSJ only 50.4 million shares , the shares will bounce , Good Luck

[bouleversee] 09/11/2020 13:36

Amazing what an effect news of a successful vaccine has. Already on the way back up. Now I know what to do when my shares go down: just spout some gloomy rubbish.

[bouleversee] 09/11/2020 12:40

Illis -

Well, maybe I am going completely ga-ga but I seem to remember reading that they had received bonuses after our dividend had been suspended and was rather peeved. They would have been for 2019 of course. I don't keep records of such things and haven't time to backtrack other than going on to the LSE which mentioned that bonuses had been deferred till July but didn't go into details. I hadn't read this before so maybe I'd read it in the Annual Report, dunno. As you say, they have made a commendable gesture over the deferred pay which I hadn't read about. I'm obviously not receiving all their reports. No idea how the loss of salary compares with the bonuses.



I must say I have thought for some time that the p/e ratio was too high to justify further purchase and in view of the total family holdings I don't think I am going to rush in now either. I am only losing profits but my son is losing capital, on paper, in his ISA so I do hope it recovers at some point; may not be in my lifetime, though.

[illiswilgig] 09/11/2020 11:33

Essential Investor -

'Is debt a potential issue here?.'

Good question. Not yet, though its above where I would normally be comfortable. Potentially yes.

Debt has grown in recent years as acquisitions made. All acceptable providing that the acquisitions prospered. That may turn out to be questionable in the marine support division at least. In my view (stated before) they made some poor acquisition and investment decisions here in the last couple of years.

H1 net debt stated as £173m down from £203m at the start of the period - but that is flattered by deferred tax, pension and salary payments. Despite that it's up from £159m at the end of the previous years H1

Certainly something that I will be watching. I suspect that the company is also - as there have been none of the usual statements about opportune acquisitions this time around.

cheers

[illiswilgig] 09/11/2020 10:03

Boule -

Personally I don't like bonuses. I don't regard them as bonuses. After the first year they are just part of the pay packet disguised, is my experience from Industry. But they have become endemic. It seems that every company awards them?

So I've looked for the bonuses.

There is a bonus policy in place for 2020. No bonus for any part of 2020 has been announced. It seems highly improbable to me that any of the conditions will be met for a bonus to be awarded, so it would be hard to waive. Some businesses may have prospered through the pandemic and so there may be bonuses to be waived?

Though they could make the point I suppose. Something along the lines of 'I waive the bonus I can't be awarded' Certainly something to watch.

So what bonus payments are you referring to? Bonus payments were made in previous years according to performance.

As far as I can find out the current CEO Eoghan O'Lionaird (and that took some typing ) has not yet been awarded a bonus - so he can't waive it?

It is also fair to note that during Q2 2020 when a lot of UK staff were furloughed and the company deferred 20% of pay the Board also deferred 20% of pay which is fair. The deferred staff salaries were paid in Q3 but the board waived their payment of 20%. Fair is fair. This should be recognised. I don't know of many other boards that did this. Just saying.

So I can't find bonus payments to be waived? And I can find deferred salary payments of 20% that have been waived? You seem to think that there are bonuses, perhaps large ones, that should be waived? Perhaps you could point me to them?


cheers

Illis

[essentialinvestor] 09/11/2020 09:39

Is debt a potential issue here?.