Enzo I put £5mln in for the 11mln contract |
I'm expecting lower cash balance compared to the £37m for fy2023:
However, they will have ongoing project and admin costs. The setup of the new facility may have been largely paid for by clients but not the ongoing project and admin costs.
They've had a lack of contracts this year.
Unlike previous years, this year they were also paying lease for a few months on both the new and old facilities, additional outgoings.
It's pointless looking at just fy2023 costs. |
1Gw .. i'm not sure it works like that.. but as we agree on, it's a complicated subject.. |
 They wrote back £8m of tax losses in 2023, had £5.5m sitting on the balance sheet at end-2023 and used a further £1.5m in 1H. So they still had £4m of deferred tax asset on the balance sheet at end-1H. This presumably offsets tax liability arising on 2H revenue and reduces (or eliminates) cash tax payable. I can't see how long this continues, in the 2023 AR they are silent on whether they have additional tax losses that could be written back if profitability continues.
"The Group has recognised a deferred tax asset for losses carried forward for the first time relating to losses in hVIVO Services Limited. Management only recognises a deferred tax asset when there is evidence that recoverability of the asset is probable, taking into account business forecasts and tax regulations. The Group, and entity in which losses are recognised, has seen underlying profitability for both the current and prior year, and expects to continue to be profit making. Therefore, management considers it appropriate to recognise a deferred tax asset." |
Enzo, agreed deferred tax is a pain in the butt.. |
Bossy - not sure (deferred tax does complicate the situation) but note 18 says that tax liabilities are less than a million - let’s see |
Enzo , if you look in the notes to the accounts for 2023 , taxation note 10.. I think it is explained .
Tax Bill for the year is 2.6 million but there is a deferred tax write back of over 8 million resulting in what looks like a net 5 refund .
However, I'm pretty sure the 2.6 is cash that had to be paid in October and the deferred tax write back was just a bookkeeping transaction.. tell me what you think.. |
You too !! All the very best and a happy and lucky new year . |
Fare play Bossy - I will hold my hands up when wrong and you have done the same - happy Christmas |
Enzo , I've just looked at the summarised accounts for last year which indeed show a 5m tax credit .. if that is true in cash terms then I'm a fool !
However , I'm pretty sure they paid approx 2.8 m in tax at end of October . I will make enquiries and revert !! |
And on cash, difficult to predict, but worth looking at the waterfall the CFO produced for the interims presentation (commentary in the post pasted below).
They're guiding to 24% EBITDA margin for the year, so I make that around £6.2m adj EBITDA in 2H vs £8.7m in 1H. The £8.7m in 1H produced £8m operating cash before WC movements. They signalled that £5m of the WC movement would unwind early in 2H. Who knows what swings and roundabouts there will be in 2H, but I would pay more attention to net current assets as indicative of the balance sheet strength. With £6m EBITDA it seems reasonable that net current assets will still be very healthy at end-year, doesn't it?
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1gw 11 Sep '24 - 14:24 - 8015 of 9036
I've now watched the presentation. Very nice slide from the CFO showing cash movements in the half - the "waterfall" slide 11.
This shows that they generated £8m in operating cash in 1H before working capital movements. They then consumed £5m in net working capital movement, which was equal to the increase in trade receivables, from £9m to £14m, as they pulled work forward (spent money ahead of being paid) into 1H. Stephen said on the call that this £5m unwound in July with trade receivables back down to £9m - so everything else being equal (which it won't be) that's a £5m boost to cash already.
That means that actually the reduction in payables due to lower advance payments (fewer contracts signed towards end of 1H vs end of 2023) was not an issue for the cash balance. Looking at the payables, deferred income (advance payments) did decrease by £3m in 1H, but this was largely offset by an increase in accrued expenses. I would guess this may also have unwound in July offsetting some of the receivables cash, but Stephen didn't comment on that.
Stephen again commented on the split of cash between company owned and client advance payments (although I think he misspoke on the split for end-1H) with company owned increasing from £21m at end-2023 to £30m at end-1H and client advance payments decreasing from £16m at end-2023 to £7m at end-1H. It appears these are net numbers with, for example, the £7m client-owned at end-1H being the £21.6m deferred income less the £14.3m trade receivables.
What it all means is that the balance sheet goes from strength to strength with net current assets increasing from £17m at end-2023 to £22m at end-1H.
Clearly Mo and Stephen have their eyes set on having the flexibility to use this balance sheet strength to fund their infill acquisitions. |
Bossy - hahahaha - the tax ‘charge’ was a £5m credit at the end of 2023 - you must be a public school boy too lazy to check details |
Not sure some of these orderbook calculations are right. I went back and looked at contracts announced in 1H. As far as I can see there was only:
£6.3m HRV announced 2nd Jan but in orderbook as of 31/12/23
£2.5m Omicron characterisation announced 3rd June
Phase 2b influenza field study announced 2nd July (value not given, may have been in 30th June orderbook).
Have I missed some?
They did £36m of revenue in 1H. Orderbook(weighted contracted) was £80m at end-2023 and £71m at 30th June 2024.
So £36m of revenue in 1H with just £2.5m plus (perhaps) field study new orderbook contributors announced in half (given HRV was in end-23 orderbook), but fall in orderbook only £9m (and not £36m - £2.5m)
The difference is likely to be partly unannounced contracts but also the weighting. Presumably contracts for delivery further out are in general risked higher than near-term delivery contracts and as time goes by the risk weighting on contracts in the orderbook comes down (unless they get cancelled). |
And as you like being very accurate , I did not say 23 m of cash I said mid 20's.
You are stoned , you can't fool us . |
Ebitda does NOT mean cash flow !! Or do you think it does ? |
Enzo , it's not my job to teach you the cash flow of this business .. but if you look at the cash flow statements in the 2023 accounts you will get a better idea .
Presumably you forgot about the corporation tax bill paid in October .Its large and its in the 2023 accounts . |
Bossy - tell me which of these numbers aren’t right . H2 revenue around £27m (making fy £62m) - - H2 EBITDA around £6m therefore H2 operating costs £21m.
Debtors at the end of H1 were £15m all of which will be paid in H2 - there will be some smaller invoices and payments in H2 to make up the £27m (plus maybe upfront payments on the recently announced contract - as per your arrogant pronouncement about the business model) so how do you get a cash depletion of £12m |
Enzo, are you stoned ?? Come on get real .. |
Well done Yump - have you added in the recent order of £11.5m into your calcs?? |
Corrected my post.
Perhaps the CEO could clarify all this quite easily. Or not. |
If so, you might want to do a bit of homework on that one too ! |
Enzo , are you saying that the 6 for venn is NOT part of the weighted order book ?? |
Chart says 18p next, and if no bounce, 14.5-15p comes in to play. |
HVO.
They have delayed publication of their fy2024 TU.
The fy2024 TU will be published after the CEO's huge >7m options start to exercise. That is yet another red flag.
The chairman dumping his entire holding whilst the company was being talked up was a huge red flag. |
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