H&t Share Discussion Threads

[thorpematt] 29/11/2019 11:24

Sometimes these things hae to go around in a circle. Eventually wisdom prevails but that can take a long time.

Definitely true that over-regulation can be a negative if it means that all reputable operators exit the market, because quite simply put, it will be left to the un-regulated to fill the gap.

Ultimately HAT will decide what its best for their business once the review is made.

Incidentally I always liked HAT in this sector BECAUSE I perceived they were normally ahead of the regulations (or indeed part of the conversation) and I think the ethics of the company's operating practices are / have been robust.

What has occurred here is a nice opportunity to buy in at a discount so I cannot complain on that score!

[outsizeclothes.com] 28/11/2019 22:44

Loan Sharks starting to make serious lolly already.

But some jobsworths at the Regulator probably think they have saved every high risk "Pay-day loan" target from misery.

There are none so blind as those who will not see.

[spob] 20/11/2019 19:48

People talking like this was a big deal

Long term this news is irrelevant


The share price drop was a massive overreaction

These were an absolute bargain at 280p if you could buy any at that price

[lord loads of lolly] 20/11/2019 17:05

q599 - I haven't, though I did sell part of my holding in HAT when it edged towards £4, getting back in again when it dropped closer to £3. Pure luck really - my timing isn't usually that good! In many ways RFX does look better - certainly in profit terms. And its share price has doubled over the last 2.5 years or so, which HAT hasn't. I guess the question is: Will the market consolidate further? And if so, will this be of more benefit to the bigger players? RFX's turnover is currently about a third of HAT's, so it could prove less resilient to any trading slump in the sector. Or it might be nimbler - less bogged down with acquisitions and the problems they can cause with integration. Who knows, but thanks for putting RFX on my radar!

[qs99] 20/11/2019 15:18

Hope a few have swapped into RFX following it's reassuring RNS this morning. Now heading through £2 once more...DYOR Shameless plug I know, but it appears the better of the two....IMO!

[qs99] 20/11/2019 13:07

Perhaps a chance to invest in RFX instead? DYOR

[glawsiain] 19/11/2019 13:29

Artemis increased their holding on the drop yesterday

[outsizeclothes.com] 19/11/2019 11:54

Wait until after Xmas until the headlines go the other way -
"Organised crime makes Xmas millions (from absence of short-term loan providers)" - The Express
"Loan shark Xmas debt leads to dozens of suicides" - The Guardian
"I prostituted myself to pay off Loan Shark" - The Sun

And the public outcry against whatever Govt. is in place - "Why did you let this happen?"

[rawnsley] 19/11/2019 09:01

Placed a stop loss as well. I can see this drifting down on sentiment unless a statement from RFX in the next release addresses this issue. Contagion.

[andrewbaker] 19/11/2019 08:55

What to do? Sound business if left alone, but regulation in recent years has become a boom industry (being abother form of PC, MeToo, etc...), employing many (of whom most are dead from the neck up), so unlikely to be cut back anytime soon. (What else can poorly educated, know-nothing younger people do these days that gives a cushy life for pretty much doing nothing except bothering decent people who do try to get things done?)

So, I've put a tight stop on this one, and will sell if it falls below. Will still have made a decent return, but smaller companies in businesses that can be messed around with by know nothings, regulators, politicians, and the like, are subject to problems as a result. Even a good return can't necessarily swallow the extra costs of responding to these free loaders.

[prettygreen] 18/11/2019 20:00

Simon Thompson in the Investors Chronicle still rates this as a buy even after today's news.

[outsizeclothes.com] 18/11/2019 17:58

btw picked up a few into this overdone sell-off for both my daughters' ISAs.
I didn't catch the bottom, but at £3 there're a steal long term.

[outsizeclothes.com] 18/11/2019 17:57

Loan Sharks couldn't wish for a better Xmas present.
They'll make millions, and probably be the cause of heartache and misery to many, if not the odd suicide as well later on. No doubt they'll be a few GBHs doled out along the way too to scores of 'clients'.
Thank you Regulator !

[epo001] 18/11/2019 11:25

I have revised my limit buy from 280p to 250p as I suspect any more bad news to result in markdowns which will shake out sellers.

[topvest] 18/11/2019 10:54

Nevertheless, I have bitten the bullet and sold. I have sold both H&T and Ramsden's - why?
I was concerned anyway that both companies had maybe bitten off a bit more than they can deal with on their recent acquisitions. H&T in particular have less leeway on their debt facilities. The gold price has also been dropping for the last few months and so the tailwind is moving to a headwind. Made a pretty decent profit on both, even before dividends, but this event today has red lined me on both.
I may get back in after the year-end results.
Good luck to those that remain.

[topvest] 18/11/2019 10:44

Revenue less impairment is accrued interest less impairments. The £24m of customer payments will include repayment of capital which looked like it averaged about £4m. I would guess at an exposure of anywhere between £nil and £5m on redress. Of course, they will no doubt cash up their existing loan book of £3m and probably exit this area now, so cash impact is unlikely to be material.

[epo001] 18/11/2019 10:03

The RNS refers to "high-cost short term credit ("HCSTC") unsecured loans business". Sounds like payday loans.

[daijavu] 18/11/2019 09:51

I don't believe that they do payday loans

[henryatkin] 18/11/2019 09:35

Are they talking about payday loans or loans secured to pawned valuables?

[epo001] 18/11/2019 09:30

This is some form of targeted investigation I presume. Whistleblower or complaint perhaps? What does "Revenue less impairment over this period totalled £11m." mean? What is impairment (of £13m?)? The definition is some form of one-time writedown of asset values.

No smoke without fire and all that. but what is the worst that can happen? Repayment of excess interest? Fine?

[rimau1] 18/11/2019 09:25

I’ve taken a position here at 2.80, trading below NAV just tuck away and forget. The underlying position is wrong and any redress should be covered by cashflow.

[rawnsley] 18/11/2019 08:46

It looks slightly overdone if this is a one time hit, however, we don't know the full scale yet.

This reads like they don't know the full picture yet though, and they've been forced by regulatory rules to release it. More sceletons could be coming out of the cloest. Perhaps why a 20% drop, which on face value looks overdone.

[scooper72] 18/11/2019 08:46

Bought a few. Long term they will always have customers and they are buying up a lot of competition. Popped into the local branch in Willesden near where I work and the staff look happy and busy.

[topvest] 18/11/2019 08:03

At least the impact is quite limited. £24m of customer payments and £11m of total revenue in this area over 6 years. Rule changes were last year, I believe, so I'm not sure how customer redress would work. I suspect we are talking a few million hit potentially.