Goldplat Share Discussion Threads

[russman] 29/9/2017 11:17

After the historic eps errors in respect of minorities.
The new FD cannot calc current diluted eps correctly.

[shareholder7] 29/9/2017 11:11

Sea how are the sourcing team incentivised?Sourcing and selling same thing people getting hung up on the wrong end of the processI bet their is no commission structure in place for the sourcing teamWhat gets them out of bed Where are their targets Who gets fired for not hitting themThat's what gets materialsOtherwise just leave it for people to ring up and say would you please take my waste away

[sea7] 29/9/2017 11:03

The whole mine waste business has precious little use for traditional sales people with sales structures, such as targets and commissions.

The bullion refineries deal with the sale side, so any sales team would not benefit at all and would not be needed.

On the buy side, it is a sourcing team, as they are not selling anything, hence no need for a sales team.

The sourcing team are commercially aware, otherwise they would not be in it. Being beaten by competitors is normal course of business, as goldplat beat others on some contracts. There is some material that goldplat simply cannot process at the prices quoted by others, or in the timeframes some want.

With regards to rands material, rand refinery got out of the <500g/t carbon market sometime ago, which put a lot more material on the market. This exit by rand from the lower end carbon market, dumped a lot more stock in to the recovery market, which goldplat bought a new fluidised bed incinerator for.

[shareholder7] 29/9/2017 11:02

Thanks Cameron I do but it's at the other end not the selling of gold but the sourcing I know that GDP have missed out on a number of opportunities as they were beaten to the material by other companiesAnd yes RR have a lot and are in fact competition to GDP if you read their web site, but you point is valid if you can't make money out of it then it's not worth having Sourcing of material is the life blood of GDP and it's interesting that most views on this board don't see the need for commercially aware people Interesting

[sea7] 29/9/2017 10:58

I see what you are saying Shareholder, however, the nature of the business is that the guys selling the feedstock are also likely to be techies (using your expression)for smaller suppliers. Larger entities may have one individual employed to deal with waste disposal, however, as it is uneconomical for the companies to process it by themselves they pay scant attention to it and spend the minimum on it, so as to comply with environmental obligations.

The sourcing team at goldplat make an initial assessment on what they think, however, they then take three samples, one is kept by the supplier, one is kept by goldplat and one is kept by the assaying company, which is independent of both parties.

These samples are then kept in case of dispute, such as the rand refinery issue.


Most of goldplats suppliers are on going contracts, whereby It is simply a case of taking the waste, processing it and selling the gold via the refinery. Goldplat returns the proceeds to the supplier, minus processing and treatment charges.
It is more akin to a utility than anything else. Sometime the mine want the gold back, so it is a straightforward processing, treatment, refining and bit on top invoice.

[kimboy2] 29/9/2017 10:50

Ah so you are talking about sourcing, not selling.

They have of course greatly expanded their sourcing personnel, and produced a record quantity of gold this year.

[camerongd53] 29/9/2017 10:50

S7

I think the answer to your question about how many sales people GDP should have is 0.

The board of GDP (and subsidiaries) will have assessed the market place and concluded that the cheapest and easiest place to sell a quantity of gold is through the bullion markets. Yes there are jewellers etc. but do gold producers such as GDP have the expertise to manage this??

Refiners are a middlemen between the bullion market and GDP's output. Refiners provide a service that enables GDPs output to be sold on the Bullion Market. All GDP needs to know is if there are any significant change in the market which I suggest does not require salesmen

Are you still of the opinion that GDP needs salesmen?

Regarding buying - that is a different issue.
Up until recently GDP had probably access to more raw material in SA than they could handle. Unless they decide to expand their business (which with falling SA gold production would be a long term bad decision), they would generally be happy to let things sit.

I suggest that there are not that many acceptable sources of substantial supplies that GDP do not have a relationship with in Southern Africa. I think there has been a strengthening of management in SA and because it is a technical issue they can be used to make business cases to customers. If you owned stuff that GDP wanted, would you want to be dealing with a non-techy as your point of contact?

As regards the RR issue - something is flawed here and we don't know what it is. The question that needs answered is:
'Do RR have a stock of material that needs processed on an ongoing basis and if they have are they going to give GDP enough margin for it to be worthwhile for GDP to process it?' If the answer is Yes to both parts then find a compromise solution. If it is not this answer, get our money from RR. Some people assume it is GDP that has too much ego - perhaps it is RR.
If it is not viable for GDP to process it, there is no point in being busy fools just to be seen to keep RR happy and work through a stockpile. The outcome of the court case will reveal a lot.

[kimboy2] 29/9/2017 10:49

I thought the share price was due to RR not the lack of sales people.

Perhaps it is just an all encompassing justification for any negative theory that people have.

[shareholder7] 29/9/2017 10:48

Love it Kimboy your background is one of an accountant or teacher, you have no idea about selling This is why you are so structured in your posts I would doubt you have any idea about sellingYou got the wrong end of the process anyone can sell gold, few people can pick up the material at the right price That's were the selling is doneQED in my view

[shareholder7] 29/9/2017 10:44

The share price

[kimboy2] 29/9/2017 10:40

How many salespeople does GDP employ ?

The answer is 0

Now this is scary as how many companies do you know have no sales reps

Gdp sell gold. They can sell as much as they can produce, easily. Why have sales people.

As I have said before RR sit on a whole heap of stuff.

Yes you have, but you have still not provided any evidence.

RR shareholders are GDP customers

Indeed they are and GDP are getting material from them

[camerongd53] 29/9/2017 09:47

Vat on sales in the UK is an output and payable to the tax authorities and I assume similar rules apply in Kenya. What the problem is that Kili project is paying Vat to suppliers as they receive goods as they receive supplies of equipment, services and goods but the KRA is not repaying them the recoverable VAT.
I suspect this problem is not going to go away. If gold is exported there is no output vat. Usually output vat (on sales) exceeds input vat on inputs and a net payment is made to the tax authorities. Therefore Kili can expect to be in a vat recovery situation for the foreseeable future.
Unless you have experienced this before, this is one of the unforeseen problems of dealing with revenue desperate countries.
Cash generation may not be as quick as anticipated!!

[sea7] 29/9/2017 09:35

The construction of the elution plant is being funded by internal resources and a further estimated £833,000 (2016: £67,000) needs to be spent before commissioning the plant.


if you look at page 67 of the AR, you will see a picture of the new elution column in Ghana under construction. There are other pictures there of kili plant 2 as well.

[sea7] 29/9/2017 09:25

I see the scipion loan that was at 5% plus 3 month libor when first used, is now shown as 9.5% plus 1 year libor. 3 month was 1.3%, 12 month libor was 1.78%

[sea7] 29/9/2017 09:14

Domestic sales of minerals are subject to 16% VAT, 0% for export. • Therefore input VAT in production phase maybe refundable but not straightforward claim.




I Think it is still relevant.

[kimboy2] 29/9/2017 09:05

£800k at 16% vat shows how much they have spent as I presume it is not on gold sales.

[sea7] 29/9/2017 09:00

at least we do know KB, that the VAT matters with the KRA are not really specific to kili as they are applying the same auditing process and delaying tactics to everyone.

[sea7] 29/9/2017 08:59

what to expect in 2018....

Main Objects and Future Development

The Group’s main object is to produce gold from the recovery of by-products discarded by the primary producers and to produce gold as a primary producer itself. Strategically by developing and growing the mature recovery businesses, the Group will be in a position to maintain healthier cash levels to cover some costs as it expands its primary producer goals.

Unlike greenfields minerals exploration companies the Group should be able to fund, if required, exploration or alternatively acquire mining operations as they become available without diluting shareholders continuously by raising capital to fund general and administrative expenses.

By taking a phased approach and organically growing the recovery and mining divisions of the Group it is possible to develop into a junior mining Group.

The aim for the 2018 year will be to focus our marketing efforts and broadening the geographic and product diversity of materials sourced to expand and grow our recovery businesses; securing by-product material for GRG from outside of Ghana; procuring material for the CIL (Carbon-in-Leach) sections at GPL; and completing the expansion project at Kilimapesa

[sea7] 29/9/2017 08:57

werner klingenberg's new CFO pay is shown as £7k in the annual accounts, which reflects the one month he had been in the job to end 30th June. So his annual salary is £84k.

I wonder if we will see Ian's drop from the current £130k

[kimboy2] 29/9/2017 08:57

Yes I saw the Kenya vat thing in the prelims. I wondered whether it was witheld due to the other tax issues, which have now been largely resolved.

I dare say they are hoping the embarassment of publicity will speed the payment.

[sea7] 29/9/2017 08:53

Goldplat is owed £792k from Rand Refinery and £812k from the Kenyan revenue authority.

This means we have £1,604,000 tied up in either disputed amounts or tax refunds that are notoriously slow to recover.

Kilimapesa has paid £256k in VAT in the last financial year, which it is entitled to claim back, this arduous process, is tying up working capital unnecessarily.

[sea7] 29/9/2017 08:47

it would seem that kilimapesa gold is having to wait just as long as everyone else for the VAT refunds...

from the accounts...

Trade and other receivables for the Group include a balance of £812,000 (FY 2016: £556,000) of Value Added Taxation receivable from the Kenya Revenue Authority. Of the current balance £472,000 is older than 3 years. Despite clear provisions in the Kenyan Legislation regarding the recoverability of VAT, and two audits and continuous consultation with the Kenya Revenue Authorities the balance due remains outstanding. Management is of the opinion that there is no legal reason not to recover the balance due.

.................

from an article a few years ago...

But economists maintain that an audit of the claims must be carried out before the refunds are made.

and

There could be cases of collusion between KRA staff and those seeking refunds,” he said by telephone, “and the Treasury should authorise more payments to KRA. It is also not clear which of the claims is genuine.”

and

Exporters at the Mombasa Tea Auction seeking refunds have denounced the delays. 
“Seeking refunds for VAT paid on tea is a major administrative bottleneck. It is costly and time-consuming,&rdquo; said the East African Tea Trade Association managing director Edward Mudibo.

“The whole process — from the time the VAT is paid by an exporter to the time it is refunded — can take three or four years. The VAT amount is the exporter’s working capital. VAT at 16 per cent constitutes a huge amount of money that simply shouldn’t be tied up,” he added.




................................

It would seem that not much real progress has been made at the KRA to clear all the backlog, as kilimapesa is still owed from over three years ago and obviously they are paying local firms first.