Diversified Energy Share Discussion Threads

[erocnelg] 09/7/2023 11:28

Do we have a timetable for the listing in US and will it be Adr.?

[croasdalelfc] 08/7/2023 07:40

The latest US lNG projects hTTps://www.energyintel.com/00000189-2d5f-d3a6-a7eb-3fff9b610000

[lab305] 07/7/2023 16:00

poggy.the share price has been falling for 11 months now. Enough is enough. The price of gas is just a red herring and buybacks will alter sentiment or at least a rise in the share price will. For those shareholders that have been here a while the severe drop is not welcome . Those new here can adopt a more laissez-faire attitude.

[poggy120] 07/7/2023 13:19

lab, if the share price is in freewill, what's the hurry to buy back?
Buybacks won't alter sentiment, or raise the price of gas!! If DEC is going to buy back shares, I'd rather they did so as low as possible.

[wirralowl] 07/7/2023 09:17

T212 are an excellent platform if you want to build a p/f of US listed companies but generally poor for the U.K. imo. For the U.K., execution isn't always instant, especially if you trade smaller caps, you don't get a 'countdown' to accept a live quote and they rarely get inside the spread. However, all trades are commission free, the ISA has no admin charges and you get interest (currently 1.6 % iirc) on any cash.

[spawny100] 07/7/2023 09:11

I could have posted much the same dovey. Also out this morning in order to add to TXP. Company changing news there soon hopefully.

[oneillshaun] 07/7/2023 08:52

Continues to decline since it hit 108p terrible really

[dovey21] 06/7/2023 16:06

I bought heavily in the mid-low 80's prior to the divi to average down. Took the Divi and sold out this morning at 90p and at a slight cap loss. I'll keep an eye on it but DEC is out of favour and increasingly so.

[lab305] 06/7/2023 15:12

Once the impetus of dividend reinvestment dies away the share is predictably resuming it's downward trajectory. Share buyback programme was just a sop to disgruntled investors without any meaningful intention or purpose. The first one lasted only 28 days and this one only one so far , a mere 100k shares bought. The enjoyable ride for shareholders this year has only 6 months left to materialize!

[fred177] 05/7/2023 21:45

LLBINliner

you can transfer shares to another provider without selling ive transferred my DEC to IG from Barclays SI for this very reason

[gary1966] 05/7/2023 21:42

LLB,

You don’t have to sell and buy, just transfer the stock to a new provider. Might have to pay a per line of stock charge.

[aleman] 05/7/2023 20:58

If the dividend tax paperwork says US withholding tax has been deducted, then my W8-BEN should apply. It does and it did. I've got the paperwork from Computershare to show HMRC if needed.

Surely the de facto arrangement with the IRS takes precedence. W8-BEN operates for US companies paying dividends abroad and that, rightly or wrongly, is what is operating here. Diversified's website says it is treated as a US corporation for tax. The tax statement that comes with the dividend from Computershare indicates the gross dividend and the US withholding tax deducted on it - 15% with a W8-BEN. If a US withholding tax IS being deducted and remitted to the US government by the registrars, then surely W8-BENs have to be applicable. Clearly, the US government, DEC and Computershare are all following US tax procedures as if DEC is subject to them and W8-BENs apply. That's the status quo.

Now I know tax systems can be so complex that both individuals, accountants and revenue staff can occasionally get them wrong from time to time but , in this case, any mistakes leading to unfair treatment are far more likely to be in the administration by UK platforms. However, I'd love to see iWeb, Halifax and maybe one or two folk on here take on the company, its registrar and The Internal Revenue Service and convince them that they are all wrong.

Peeps here should look at STCM - a UK-listed Dutch holding company operating a Kazahk Cement company through a Malaysian subsidiary. It's had problems paying out its profits as UK dividends due to Kazahk and Malaysian tax rules. Listing in the UK does not stop the other tax systems taking precedence.

[scrwal] 05/7/2023 17:39

Tax is complex and made worse by bad drafting which can alter what was actually intended.
What is posted on the DEC website has a lot of "may" in it. It appears that the default assumption is that a W-8BEN applies and is effective which may/may not be accurate.
The Internal Revenue Code relates to US taxation only and does not cover any impact of a UK registered and quoted company generating all its income from US activities. The dividends are paid by a UK entity not a US one. The guidance notes make reference to income from US sources eg dividends but DEC is incorporated in the UK so any dividend paid is not from an US source (although the income etc is generated from US trading)

The link below gives the latest set of instructions as the DEC links are out of date


I like everyone would prefer the accepted understanding of what happens to be that a W-8BEN applies but given the confusion it may be that a complaint to the Financial Ombudsman may result in clarification but might not be the result we want.

[laurence llewelyn binliner] 05/7/2023 17:25

Barlcays SI have paid out now in the ISA -30% WHT as expected even with an active W8-BEN, so now it is a matter of just having to suck on it, or moving onto another platform..

Fact is it will cost a great deal more than the missing 15% dividend income on 1 share to sell/buy a portfolio again on A.N.Other platform and also have to pay the stamp duty again too..

10% tax free is not so bad, but it still grinds a bit not to receive the full amount due, it the share does get a US listing in the near future the tide will turn so I will most likely just roll with it for this year..

My thanks to contributors here to uncover who gets what/where...

[aleman] 05/7/2023 16:02

Send Halifax the link to DEC's dividend and tax information page. You'd think the company and registrar would have checked the tax situation thoroughly before the company put this specific tax guidance on its website and its registrar started paying 85% (or 100% on SIPPs) on holdings with W8-BENs submitted.



RS Tax Forms

Pursuant to Section 7874 of The Internal Revenue Code, Diversified is treated as a U.S. corporation for all purposes under the Code. Therefore, dividends from the Company may be subject to US withholding taxes, depending on the country of residence of the shareholder, and whether the country has an income tax treaty with the United States. The statutory rate of withholding under the Code is 30 percent, which may be reduced by an applicable treaty.

For non-US Shareholders who are individuals that have not previously completed the appropriate US Withholding Tax Form, Form W-8BEN (or W-8ECI in some cases) relating to US withholding tax for non-US investors should be completed. For non-US Shareholders who are corporate entities, Form W-8BEN-E (or, if applicable, Form W-8IMY or Form W-8ECI) relating to US withholding tax for non-US investors should be completed. In some cases, Form W-8ECI may be applicable to individual Shareholders that have other U.S. taxable income and file a U.S. income tax return.

For Shareholders who complete and return the US withholding tax form relevant to them, the rate of US withholding tax will be adjusted to a rate of between 0% and 30% depending on the elections provided by the Shareholder in the Form W-8 and in accordance with the withholding rate under the applicable double income tax treaty (for example, 15% under the US-UK treaty).

(Links to the forms and instructions on how to complete them then follow.)

[mackie] 05/7/2023 15:11

This is the answer I received from Halifax share dealing when I queried the tax paid.

"I can confirm that Diversified Energy is a US tax paying company listed in the UK. This means the tax deduction rate will
be 30% as the W8-BEN only applies to stock listed on US markets."

[drk1] 05/7/2023 14:59

Laurence - that is p.ss poor! Move to IG. I got my divi credit on my spread-betting account the DAY after divi date. 15% on the rest.

[laurence llewelyn binliner] 04/7/2023 19:26

Still nothing received from Barclays SI / ISA to report on, but optimism now drained as to getting away with the 15% WHT instead of the 30%..

Thanks to contributors here on the topic, it makes for easier decisions going forward..

Nice to see DEC over 90p again today, but doubly frustrating as rolling dividends back in is now more expensive on account of the delayed receipts..

[aleman] 04/7/2023 17:19

I suspect that investment platforms have to fill out separate "entity" forms (W8-BEN-E or W8-IMY) and notify changing investor holdings, or even resubmit the entity forms, to investorlink for each quarterly dividend. There are probably only a handful of individuals on each platform but their total holdings will still vary quite a lot from dividend to dividend. I bet it's just too much hassle for some platforms and they don't do it but make excuses. Defrauding modest amounts from a handful of investors would not be worth the risk of the awful publicity an investment house would get if exposed. With this in mind, I suspect the tax remains unclaimed with the US government rather than it being "stolen" by anyone - unless somebody knows better!

[erocnelg] 04/7/2023 16:33

Sounds like some dealing services are stealing our money you could end up with years of dividend tax back!

[t 34] 04/7/2023 16:32

GaryCook
Thank you. I will depart to HL from SMART INVESTOR.

[garycook] 04/7/2023 14:48

The extra 15% is pocketed by iweb. The same thing HL were doing charging me 30% from my SIPP dividend. It,s called Stealing your money.

[spawny100] 04/7/2023 14:01

Interesting discussion. I'll keep you informed when I get any info from fos. I wonder where that extra 15% ends up at present?!