Coral Products Share Discussion Threads

[valuschmalu] 09/11/2019 11:05

I'm going to stick neck out and guess 1.2mn EBITDA but in reality have no idea. More interested in net debt coming down with capex being kept under control and some working capital being released. 7.5mn net debt would be a start. I think they will have to add another 1mn net debt from operating lease capitalisation because of accounting rule change but will ignore that

[charo] 08/11/2019 10:14

The quiet is encouraging as if any bad news JG would have announced.

[clocktower] 08/11/2019 09:25

Good timing markth126, having got in below current entry levels.

Aleman, The tick up could have been been due to one MM having gone a little short previously and is just slowly edging the share price up to see where they can cover themselves.

Maybe mark was the buyer that resulted in this, as we have seen very few buyers of late in any numbers, bar JG etc.

[aleman] 07/11/2019 19:15

No profit warning for H1 and recyling running so I'm looking for a modest rise to £2m EBITDA and maybe £1m reduction in net debt and maybe hint at a final dividend. However, the trading outlook will be key to the direction of the share price. I think that is unpredictable in the current climate. We had 4 months of losses appear from nowhere last year so I'm not counting chickens.

[charo] 07/11/2019 18:58

The crazy price for tatra was ,as I recall around 5 times earnings in shares and cash.All the acqs have worked the recurring problem is haydock but it does provide a super cash flow. JG just needs stop the spend there and recoup ,through depreciation and rent the nearly 2 million per annum ,less losses.
In fact could run for two years with no growth and recover nearly all debt other than mortgage.

[aleman] 07/11/2019 17:51

Up again - and I doubt today's £675 buy was behind a few days of small rises so another tick up bodes well. Somebody wants more than the MMs have and the market is willing to surrender at this price.

[sitrep] 07/11/2019 17:33

P Freud is responsible for sales - he is in charge of business development overall including sales and M&A. He was the son of the owner at Tatra and when this was acquired (at a crazy high price by the way) Freud was given a golden ticket of shares and big salary as part of the plastic board.

[clocktower] 06/11/2019 13:30

Aleman, no sign of any big order being worked - With the removal of the National Salesman,Steve Cranswick - it hardly seems sales would have improved. On top of that the last statement suggested they had made cuts to reduce cost due to the tough business environment, although remaining profitable (at that time), we are no wiser in respect of profits since then.

The appointment of a new national sales person and one that seems to have limited sales abilities (based on her past)it seems to me they are barking up the wrong tree.

Taking all past RNS into account, I think they are basing the success or otherwise on the new MBRS, which I expect uses a lot of low grade re-cycled plastic. It is part of an trial from St Helen`s Council - they plugged it around numerous shows but we do not know if they took any decent orders for it.

I seem to recall reading that it will not be in full production until 2020 though, so months to go yet before we get any idea if this will be the success,it seems they are pinning a lot on. From the pictures, it seems that it could be a big hit, as I guess the price is fairly high, as it contains a lot of smaller boxes for separation of rubbish, unlike a normal wheelie bin.

sitrep. when I last looked at one of the companies websites, it said Helen Broderick was now National Sales Rep - P.Freud is a director and was with Tatra, and has been on the board for so,e time, no doubt as part of the deal done with JG at the time.

[sitrep] 06/11/2019 13:03

The person supposedly responsible for sales is Mr P Freud. Big salary, zero delivery. The only way Coral have achieved new business is by buying it (acquisitions).

[aleman] 06/11/2019 12:36

No profit warning this time! No news is good news. Last H1 had underlying EBITDA of £1.7m and EPS of 0.87p. That's without the new recyling plant. The oil price is lower than last year and £ higher, so there could be a significant improvement in margins, though probably not yet in H1. Probably more likely to come through in months ahead. It would be nice to see some of last year's £650k rise in stocks unwind and generate cash or - failing that - another big rise in sales off the back of it.

[aleman] 06/11/2019 12:29

I like the timing. H1 ended last week and results at the end of the month. They'll be crunching the numbers from stocktakes, etc. now.

[aleman] 06/11/2019 12:19

Creeping up on no trades. Big order being worked?

[atholl91] 30/10/2019 10:58

Excellent CT. right on the button.

[clocktower] 30/10/2019 09:56

Interesting debate about the Chairman`s roll (in CRU) Pugugly/charo, I`m with Pug on this one for several reasons - In this case JG had a long established roll as CEO/Chairman and between CEO`s (which clearly he was the driving force in appointing them) and had to take up roll in between appointments. Customers/suppliers will have established a strong relationship with him from those periods which in the main were more satisfactory than things have ever been since.

Do the customers have the same confidence in Mike Wood?

Let us look at the CEO from a background perspective - From the company website:

"Michael (Mick) Wood CEO

Mick Joined the Coral business in August 2017 as Chief Operating Officer. In January 2018 he accepted the role of Chief Executive Officer for the group. During his 38 years of experience in the plastics manufacturing industry, Mick has held many senior roles in Operations Management and Engineering disciplines."

Clearly he is not a sales person, is he a good communicator,is he a numbers man, is he a experienced buyer,is he competent to pick a good sales team (results seem to show he has not been able to do that), has he any vision or is it for the Chairman to provide the vision?

Over the past few years the best tool in any business has been its website - what has the CEO been doing with Coral`s website since he has taken up his post? Is it a good sales tool? What does it do for the business? The main website does not even have an extensive picture list of products, let alone prices or links to retailers, or even the faces and details of the sales team so larger organisations know who to contact, with faces to match. Some time ago, I was informed the website speed of loading was going to be upgraded and the site improved - it has not!

They have been to show after show over the past 12 months, and looking at the pictures the company stands, they have looked more like a start up operation rather than that of a professional listed company. Maybe less shows but just make sure you have a team that actively knows how to go about getting business on the road.

The point is, it really seems the Chairman has just sat back (in sunny climates) without giving either CEO direction or a plan having lost the plot and allowed the business to stagnate and be suckered into going in directions that he should have know better than allow the company to get into (automotive - and now possibly re-cycling).

JG needs to get up off his backside and get the company back on track, or remove himself.

[charo] 29/10/2019 22:16

Sorry pugly most customers only want deal with CEO.The chair is generally seen as irrelevant.
Only where large shareholders have In influence over appointment is chair deemed to be a power in itself rather than first among equals bolstered by often the double vote in stalemate.
This needs be used rarely as can lead to corporate breakdown.
Having fulfilled both roles over many years it is a difficult balance.
There is no one fit suits all.

[pugugly] 29/10/2019 21:20

charo - You are absolutely right for a large co - but for a minnow like this one the Chairman needs to have hands on experience of the industry - how it works - and be available to talk to major customers at top level if necessary. Totally different animal and motivational environment to a large coy of say £100m t/o and say 500+ employees-
If chair person in small company does not have deep industry experience then often is a disaster.
One of the start-ups where I was invested brought in a so called experienced chair person. We then had to get rid of them PDQ as started spending on consultants services as though we were a major, cost us an arm and a leg and set the business back by over 6 months and needed a new round of very dilutive funding.

[charo] 29/10/2019 17:40

As a former CEO the last thing you want is a highly motivated chairman trying to do your job.
Chairman needs be rounded and financially and commercially aware.In listed vehicles a good understanding of rules and relationship with advisors is essential.Executives execute plans boards agree strategy.

[pugugly] 29/10/2019 10:57

For microcap quoted companies such as CRU Chairman should (imo) have detailed knowledge of both the industry and the company plus masses of motivational enthusiasm - but Grimmond seems to miss on these points.

No use just being a numbers man.

Very different for a large (say £100M plus coy) where there should be very experienced support departments and where the CEO probably best to concentrate on structure and forward strategy- provided of course competent - unlike some that could be named!!.

[clocktower] 29/10/2019 08:31

As I said, a bid from MACF would be welcome (at even a low level) even if it did undervalue the stock, as it might put it in play and pressure on the BoD to take action to act in all stakeholders best interests.

MACF has been growing by acquisition and seem to be on the ball. A all share offer maybe, which might offer a better return to CRU holders.

[charo] 28/10/2019 22:18

Sitrep,far from me to defend atholl,who cant decide whether JG is all pervasive or ex pat playboy,but it was I who made the point about minutes and you specifically said voted.
JG and DL have both been chief exec and directors of other public companies with extensive financial market experience. The board listening to concerns took steps to add operational expertise,MW.MW now just starting his 3rd year of office needs demonstrate that business is going forward.
Otherwise the reasonable suggestion put forward by valueschmalu will be pushed for by shareholders.
The recent property sales on the estate suggest the property is well undervalued.
The sale of the plant and equipment together with the site could eliminate debt and leave around £18million of sales and profits of circa £1.75 pbt ,taking average over 3 years from companies house.JG has been patient, he bought into the haydock potential.But he no doubt has limits and a back up plan over to you valuescmalu.

[sitrep] 28/10/2019 22:03

I have to admit, I have no idea why they need 2 manufacturing facilities, Haydock should be big enough but I am sure this must have been considered

[sitrep] 28/10/2019 21:57

Atholl considering you are the most experienced executive the world has never heard of, you miss the point. Board minutes show objection and discussion - I was not referring to any particular outcome, after all that is the point of non execs and that is the point of having minutes (otherwise why have them). The board at CRU is a plastic board (like what I did there?) and I would expect the minutes to show this lack of contribution and scrutiny from those around JG.

[charo] 28/10/2019 21:50

Sitrep according to companies house tatrarotalac formed July 2016 and JG was appointed to board on Jan 2019,possibly at request of management .As he does not sit on other subsidiary boards.

[charo] 28/10/2019 21:34

Atholl91 perhaps instead of sniping in the dark you might challenge JG by gathering support or even attending general meeting .As to sitreps nonsensical point and having sat on dozens of boards public and private probably 500 plus board meetings I can barely recall more than a couple where minutes recorded split boards.
The chairmans skill is to avoid such by ensuring the best decision for the company.