Concepta Share Discussion Threads

[grahamg8] 04/11/2012 18:21

Above post should say reserves at Group holding company level. That's the trouble , you try to explain a news release that is unclear and do the same thing yourself. Although at times I get the impression that AYM do it deliberately rather than by accident.

[grahamg8] 04/11/2012 12:22

Boros the 2.2cps relates to reserves in IOM and Luxembourg at group level. So the NAV of 2.7cps of the Group as a whole could well hold up. Worth a message to the Company asking a specific question, and remind them that by continually drip feeding incomplete information they are in danger of creating a false market in the shares. The Directors would then become personally liable for compensation claims.

[rbcrbc] 01/11/2012 12:03

All very confusing....

From the half year report:

All expected liquidation costs and other expenses expected to be incurred up to the completion of the liquidation of the Group's subsidiary undertakings by the end of 2012 (and beyond, where necessary) have been provided for in the Consolidated Balance Sheet as at 31 December 2011. The total amount accrued was some EUR2.0 million and has been reviewed and adjusted in detail in the Consolidated

Would be nice to know what it was adjusted to....

2.0m EUR would be 0.86c per share. But I'm sure some has been spent already in closing subsiduaries etc.

p.s. Pejaten normaly you wont get much of a choice to stay with the new business unless you have a very large shareholding.

[badtime] 01/11/2012 09:44

boros maybe the rest is tax losses? just a guess

[pejaten] 01/11/2012 09:07

Good question. This reverse take over sounds interesting though. Presumably this will eliminate cost of liquidating company and we get a chance to decide whether to take cash r stay with the new business. Not long to wait

[boros10] 01/11/2012 07:36

Distributable Reserves now expect to be 2.2c. Net Assets at the interim stage were 2.7c. Given that net assets were stated after full provision for winding down costs and are calculated on a break up basis - why is the newly released estimate of the eventual payout so much lower?

[rbcrbc] 26/10/2012 11:22

A trip to the Isle of Man next wednesday for the AGM ought to realise an answer, alternatively as the statement they gave you is now in the public domain they ought to be able to be persuaded to comment on the next distribution in the AGM RNS.

My guess would be that the discussions on a sale of the shell rather than liquidation may be progressing slightly slower than anticipated - which could mean anything or nothing - hopefully it means two (or more) interested parties outbidding each other ! But maybe the buyer just wants to complete next year not this.

[praipus] 26/10/2012 10:47

Not sure if these guys could help in this case but they might be worth an email or call.

[papy02] 26/10/2012 10:17

Not been posting much recently (been invaded by aliens aka grandchildren).

Got a disturbing reply to a query re when could we expect an announcement on the next(final?) distribution, and would the distribution be before mid-Dec (when my spreadbet position will roll at huge cost/spread):
I'm afraid I cannot give you any guidance in relation to your second question, but I understand the company is incentivised to delay this.

When asked for clarification, Redleaf said they need to go back to the company, but no reponse so far.

I assume this was an unguarded reply, maybe from someone junior, but it's disturbing (if not a surprise).

I must check the current terms of the property manager. Not sure if this is just about drawing continued pay and rations (or the board doing so), or if there is a further perverse incentive.

Is there anything we can do about this? (clutching my straw)

[steve36] 10/10/2012 12:15

Presumably the losses exist in subsidiary companies which could be seperately sold. I doubt much value could be generated this way though.

[grahamg8] 09/10/2012 17:40

Correct Ibarty. I forgot that. So just the listing value then.

[ibarty] 04/10/2012 00:13

Graham, I thought Carpathian was incorporated in Isle of Mann, so that they pay only nominal tax? If this is the case, I would have thought the tax losses would be of very limited value, but maybe I am wrong.

[grahamg8] 29/9/2012 09:08

The NAV of 2.7cps should be net of receivables and payables. The only adjustments going forward should therefore be admin costs since 1 July and any value from selling the listing separately, worth about £200k I think. But the elephant in the room is the accumulated losses of 38.637m Euros, see about three quarters down the RNS. In theory a buyer of the Company can offset these against their own future profits and is worth 4cps. Now If they can get an exit sale value anywhere near that then I may just forgive all the past mgt faults. My estimated NAV was 2.54cps in March so anything in that region will do me. Expect 2.5 eventually and be pleasantly surprised by anything over that.

[rbcrbc] 28/9/2012 15:29

I'm not sure I'd understand the answers !

[praipus] 28/9/2012 15:24

Still holding but no crystal ball or accounting skills. I dont wish to sound flippant but have you tried talking to them?

[rbcrbc] 28/9/2012 14:44

Lots of sellers at 2c today.

Would I be right in thinking that we should get NAV i.e. 2.7c min as the final payment ?

But:

With 9.2m EUR cash that is 4c per share of cash.

Could receivables of 2.7m add another 1.1c per share if it all comes in.

The discussions re selling the shell co as opposed to liquidation look interesting as it may free up some or all of the 2m EUR set aside for the wind up that could be up to 0.8c per share extra.

According to note 15 we had 4.8m in court as security that was recovered after the period end + 0.85m.


15 Subsequent Event

The Company's local subsidiaries recovered the cash of approximately
EUR4.8 million in total in two instalments on 26 June 2012 and
07 September 2012 that had been required to be deposited at court
as security. In addition, further cash reserves held in one of
the local entities of EUR0.85 million were able to be released
on 07 September 2012.


That cant be part of the receivables as receivables is only 2.7m, it cant be in the 9.2m cash at period end as it wasnt cash, so was this off balance sheet at period end and therefore a possible addition to the final payout of 4.8 + 0.85 / 230 = 2.4c per share. Or is this the major part of trade/other payables, but would it not be a receivable not a payable ?

Could we have 2.7 + 1.1 + 0.8 + 2.4 = 7c as the max possible payout.



reversal of related liabilities increased the net asset value of the Group by approximately EUR7.8 million in total.

7.8m is 3.4c per share ???

There are very few times in my life I have wished I was an accountant :-)

any thoughts from any one, or has everyone sold out :-)

[rbcrbc] 26/9/2012 13:05

Carpathian PLC (AIM: CPT), the commercial property investment company, will announce its Interim Results for the six months ended 30 June 2012 on Friday 28 September 2012.

and hopefully an update on the current cash position and we may be well placed to guess at the final distribution.....

[rbcrbc] 17/9/2012 16:30

And 12st Sept has come and gone (I missed it).

Half year report was out 21st Sept last year......

[rbcrbc] 06/9/2012 11:24

5th Sept has come and gone..........

[papy02] 22/8/2012 11:04

Yup, not sure whether to start nail-biting now or wait till 5 Sep and start then ;-)

[rbcrbc] 22/8/2012 10:52

Papy02
7 Jul'12 - 20:41 - 1262 of 1266

11 July Litigation discontinued and non-appealable
22 Aug Earliest for release of Eur 4.8m cash by Polish court - latest 5 Sep
12 Sep Earliest for repatriation of Eur 4.8m cash from Polish dispute - latest 10 Oct

What's the date today ?

[rbcrbc] 08/8/2012 11:53

Looks to me like they know nothing, hopefully we will get an update with the interims.

[papy02] 03/8/2012 17:49

I asked about progress re 11 May 2012 RNS on the Warsaw legal dispute

..... Whilst there is no prescribed timetable for this, it is expected that the discontinuation should be achieved within 2 months from today. ......



Replies, via Redleaf Polhill, were:

... as mentioned in the release, there was no prescribed timetable for the litigation to become discontinued and non-appealable, but you can expect a further announcement once the complete case is closed.

and to my request for clarification, a reply today:

I believe an announcement is likely to be after the money has also been released.

My conclusions:

Positive: - nothing to indicate the process has hit the buffers

Negative: - can't tell if they are on schedule, but in glass-half-empty mode, they've not confirmed they are on track, with the litigation discontinued now.

Any thoughts/ comments welcome.

[rbcrbc] 28/7/2012 11:40

Interims to end June were published 21st Sept last year, I would have thought they would be very simple this year and ought to be able to be published a lot earlier than that this year.

[grahamg8] 28/7/2012 08:11

Sorry for recent silence, locked out with computer problems. I have September pencilled in for news of a distribution. Frustrating waiting but we will get there in the end.