Cineworld Share Discussion Threads

[mozy123] 15/2/2018 11:25

there are 4 times as many rights as ords.

You cant me made worse of.

1843*228
and
(1843*4)*(228-157)

will equal roughtly the total value of the holding on the day of the announcement.

[royjs] 15/2/2018 11:21

Thank you sharw, I did see your 1690 post, I think that was the picture house thing. My partner also missed that but never received anything not sure how she can find out why now, anyway a different issue.

The problem is she was planning to use the shares to pay part of our wedding this October so was planning to sell them this year but was hoping they would improve from the January value but obviously that's all history now. So our priority is to get as much cash out of the situation by October this year?

[royjs] 15/2/2018 11:09

OK thanks Mozy123 but it's your total number of ordinary shares not 4 times so using 228p example would be 1843*(228p-157p)= £1308?

In that case we've lost out as before the rights issue value was over 500p so keeping it simple:

was 1843*500p= £9215

Now 1843*228p + 1843*(228p-157p)= £5510

It seems this does makes us worse off?

[sharw] 15/2/2018 11:06

royjs - see my post 1690 for what I did last time round.

It is a difficult decision for you because not only are the markets volatile at the moment but also the deal causing the rights issue is massive and to make it work management need to improve profits at the acquired US chain. If they succeed the share price goes up and if they don't.....

I think you realise that in the short term if prices do not move (if!) then you will be no better or worse off whatever you decide so the question you really need to ask is what you would do with the roughly £6000 that you would receive if you did nothing. You could buy something different and thus diversify your portfolio - there are plenty of companies out there which some people would rate higher than CINE. This is where it really is up to you.

[mozy123] 15/2/2018 10:50

Sorry my bad. They will be sold into the market. Say 228p and less the right value 157p.

The variable is the price of the market when your lasped rights are sold.

Cant advise on that.

[royjs] 15/2/2018 09:27

Thank you for your patience with me sharw and Mozy123, sorry for the confusion yes the date missed is the special dealing service 9 Feb.

I now understand we have 2 options but what do you think is a good bet, appreciate nobody knows where it will go but I'm trying to understand are we better to wait to receive the rights sale or buy what we can?

Mozy123 wrote the following:

As you have not done anything the 4 shares will be sold by the company and you will get cash for them. 79p-157p (price of the right) 4*78p for every ord share.

So for the 1843 shares she has that would mean 1843*4*78p=£5750 (less fees etc)
However sharw indicated it would be share price less 157 so if share price is todays that would be 1843*(238p-157p)= £1492

So I guess I've not understood Mozy123 explanation correctly, sorry.

If for example we decide to buy an additional £1000 at 157p each that would be 637 shares so if we managed to sell them on at todays price 238p that would give around £500 profit (less fees). If we let them lapse those 637 shares may get back 637*(238-157)= £515. Obviously some big assumptions there but trying work out is better to invest in some more or let it lapse as it seems what could be made in the short term is similar if the price goes up. Or is it possible that in a few months they could be worth more and a greater profit made.

What would you do in this situation apart from sell them last May when they were 744p.....

Thank you for your support

[sharw] 14/2/2018 22:33

royjs - I think you are confusing us by saying that you have missed a date. The first question is whether your shares are in a nominee a/c or certificated. The fact that you have been talking to the registrar Link suggests the latter.

The complex timetable is set out in full some way down the announcement:



You say you missed the 9th but that was a special facility:

Latest time for receipt of instructions under the Special Dealing Service in respect of Cashless Take-up or disposal of Nil Paid Rights 3.00 p.m. on 9 February 2018

The next main deadline is:

Latest time and date for acceptance, payment in full and registration of renunciation of Provisional Allotment Letters 11.00 a.m. on 19 February 2018

So assuming you are in certificates you have two options left - pay 157p per rights share by that deadline or do nothing. If you do nothing the rights shares will automatically be sold on your behalf and you will receive the share price less 157 less expenses.

This has all been explained on this thread before - you may wish to calmly read through starting here:



Remember - as Mozy123 says this can't make you worse off.

[royjs] 14/2/2018 22:04

Thanks the deadline was 9 feb for rail-swallowing or selling rights. So there’s a chance that when they sell the rights on it will be worth much less than if we sold the rights by deadline.

Are we better to use some of the rights to buy some shares. Would that give a better return than doing nothing and receiving whatever they sell the rights for ?

[mozy123] 14/2/2018 21:14

A rights issue cant make you worse off. But can result in you not owning the same % of the merged company if you dont take up your entitlement.

What will happen if I allow my Rights to lapse?

The Underwriters for the Rights Issue will attempt to find buyers for any Shares not taken up. If these can be sold by the Underwriters at a premium to the 157p cost this premium will be paid to your Account, less any expenses incurred.

Can I sell some Rights to raise cash to take up the remainder?

Yes. This process is often referred to as a cashless take-up or ‘Tail-Swallowing’.

We were discussing this earlier today - see the calculation.

Deadline i think is 12 noon tomorrow. you better phone your instruction first thing.

[royjs] 14/2/2018 21:02

Thank you so doing nothing will get something even though missed deadline to sell rights.

Do you think it’s worth taking up some of the shares at 157p is there good chance the value will keep above the 200p for a few months?

[mozy123] 14/2/2018 20:34

royjs - you have 1 share worth 236p and for every one of those you have 4 shares worth 79p

As you have not done anything the 4 shares will be sold by the company and you will get cash for them. 79p-157p (price of the right) 4*78p for every ord share.

You will end up with the same about of shares in the company (although now a smaller % of the overall company) and a lump of cash, which then you can buy more cineworld with or even another investment.

The cash and the value of the shares held will roughly equal the price of cineworld on the announcement of the reverse takeover.

I would however move your shareholding to a company that communicate with you on time.

[royjs] 14/2/2018 20:14

Thank you, I can't find or understand that part on the documentation I spoke to the Link Asset Services (Receiving agent)and they said the other option was to complete form X renunciation where it goes back to the company. So I'm confused....

But you're saying that any rights not taken will be sold even if you don't return form by deadline?

What's the view on if we can put some more cash in will there be a reasonable return I'm guessing the value will drop ?

[grahamburn] 14/2/2018 19:40

The rights issue shares which were allocated to you will be sold by the company and you will receive the proceeds less any costs in due course.

Look at the offer document for full details.

[royjs] 14/2/2018 18:48

Hi Guys sorry just found this thread. Been struggling to work it out. My partner has Cineworld shares and received the letter last week but we couldn't understand the options apart from the buy more shares. We missed the deadline of 9th Feb as didn't receive letter until 8th Feb and couldn't work it out so it seems made a massive loss in the share value and missed the chance to sell the rights so it seems missed the chance to recover some of losses made when value basically halved.

So it seems that because we missed the deadline which seemed very few days almost designed to give people as little chance as possible, and because we don't have cash to buy more we're left with shares less than half the value and no obvious signs of full recovery back to the 744p high of 2017.

My question is if you do nothing my assumption was nothing happens and you just have your original shares at the current market value (234p)but on the thread someone mentioned something about doing nothing was an option as if you got something back?

Sorry I'm clueless and not explaining but obviously frustrated as it seems she'd lost a lot, if only we sold last May...

[mozy123] 14/2/2018 12:39

n = 7332 / (1+(71/157))

cheers

[sharw] 14/2/2018 12:36

No - you divide 71 by 157 before adding the 1

[mozy123] 14/2/2018 12:16

so

n = 7332 / (1+71/157)

n= 7332 / (72/157)

n= 7332 / 0.4585

n= 15991 rights - how can he sell that many - hes owns 7332

[glenowen] 14/2/2018 12:07

Thanks very much for that, Shawr. I was able to work out the basics with your equation and do the trade/elect to exercise the remaining rights. For once, my inability at maths has paid dividends - I sold this morning at 75p compared to the 64p I was looking at yesterday, when I first tried the arithmetic. I'm glad I gave it up in frustration!

[sharw] 14/2/2018 10:40

See my post 1699 for an example.

If you were to brush up your maths to get an exact formula you would arrive at:

n = t / (1+r/157)

n = number of rts to sell t = total number of rts held r = price obtained for rts

[glenowen] 14/2/2018 00:06

So tomorrow (14/2) is the last day to make a decision on the Rights issue. I would like to sell sufficient of my rights to take up the remainder at 157p each - the "cashless" take-up option. Can any of you clever people out there, who are good at maths, reveal what the appropriate equation might be? That is, how many rights I need to sell in the market tomorrow - using today's closing price of 71.1p as an example, I appreciate the price will fluctuate tomorrow - to take up whatever the balance of new shares might be at 157p each. The rights holding is 7332.

I have tried working it out myself but have failed miserably, despite my O Level in maths!

[cwa1] 12/2/2018 08:50

Peel Hunt upgrade this morning:-

12 Feb 18 Peel Hunt Buy 226.80 254.00 270.00 Upgrades

[salacia] 07/2/2018 15:48

Thanks for your reply and advice. I won't take any notice of these reports in future!!

[mozy123] 07/2/2018 15:27

You need to ask the 1000's of individuals making thier own decisions about thier porfolios, not a few retail punters on a bb. :)

I wouldnt take too much notice of what brokers say. They talk their own book.

[salacia] 07/2/2018 14:55

Can someone please explain why, when a share is downgraded but still way in excess of its current price, it drops even further

[philanderer] 07/2/2018 13:58

7th feb JP Morgan Caz overweight tp 300p