Cloudified Share Discussion Threads

[frak] 17/12/2015 16:22

Something interesting whilst we wait.. well I thought so anyway!

In the ICSID case:

Quiborax S.A.and Non Metallic Minerals S.A. (Claimants)
v.
Plurinational State of Bolivia

Recently concluded/awarded (15th September 2015) there was 'partial' dissent by one of the Arbitrators... Brigette Stern (also, as it happens, one of the Arbitrators for Oxus Gold).

Here is her full explanation of her partial dissent:



What is interesting is that she discusses whether compensation should be as per the date of 'expropriation' and original projected profits at the time or related to market conditions (in essence) at the time of the award!

For those not wishing to wade through the whole article here's an extract:

An analysis of the case law.

43. The majority (she means the other 2 arbitrators in the Quiborax case)relies on case law to support its approach. But, an analysis of the case law of investment arbitral tribunals shows that, in the overwhelming majority of cases having dealt with an unlawful expropriation, the date of the expropriation was adopted in order to calculate damages, based on what was foreseeable at that date. It cannot be contested that the decisions adopting an ex post valuation – in the extensive interpretation used by the majority – are extremely few: as a matter of fact, the majority itself, in the footnote relating to the “several investment arbitration tribunals”, mentions only four treaty cases: ADC v. Hungary, Siemens v. Argentina, ConocoPhilips v. Venezuela and Yukos v. Russia. These are – to the best of my knowledge – the ONLY cases in almost thirty years of investment arbitration adopting the date of the award and ex post data, compared to the hundreds of cases relying on the date of expropriation and what was foreseeable on that date, in other words, the hundreds of awards which have granted, in case of expropriation, both lawful and unlawful, the fair market value of the expropriated property, evaluated at the date of the expropriation, with the knowledge at that time.

44. In other words, the approach adopted by the majority (she means the other 2 arbitrators in the Quiborax case) appears to me as an ultra-minority position.

[melodrama] 17/12/2015 16:04

The other Pos is that the Indos have gone public on their "Oops we shafted the West Fund" of some $20 billion set aside, so no problem collecting the Wonga

[debbiegee] 17/12/2015 15:53

Maybe 7.20 also includes costs they expect to be compensated with as well ?

[flyingc] 17/12/2015 15:41

bones (846)

Yes - these people tend not to back losers. It bodes well for CHL's case on the merits.

2016 is looking good for CHL longs.

FC

[bones30] 17/12/2015 15:21

The no-win no-fee types being very interested in talking to them was a good bit. They knows its a winner by the sounds of it.

[pb01] 17/12/2015 15:12

Ok thanks. I thought previously full valuation was nearer 650 pence. The strengthening USD will help also.

[bones30] 17/12/2015 15:06

PB01 - if they get the full award yes, i.e. if the FTI valuation is considered fair, if no more dilution.

[pb01] 17/12/2015 15:03

Am I reading that graph correctly, its a little hard to read.

It's indicating at £7.20 per share?

[bones30] 17/12/2015 13:23

That chart's interesting. Nothing new but does put things in perspective. Interesting his comments on Noor too.

[pb01] 17/12/2015 10:58

I felt DQ seemed confident and relaxed in the video with a few sighs of frustration noticeable as he described some of the ROI antics. A good profesional presentation by him.

However it would have been much much better in my view and especially whilst he was in the country, to provide this presentation to all interested CHL shareholders, either at the AGM or some other informal event.

[valtos] 17/12/2015 09:49

Tks SOS100 for the post

[pb01] 17/12/2015 08:47

Thanks for posting that SOS100

[sos100] 17/12/2015 04:06

shares mag presentation few days ago

[trjones2] 16/12/2015 12:22

indo,s battle over corruption advfn news 10.55am

[debbiegee] 16/12/2015 10:52

6K @17.65 is a buy .
Its just a little Christmas pressie to myself LOL !

Have a good Christmas everbody and lets hope its our year Next Year !

[daddy warbucks] 16/12/2015 07:57

Someone keen to get in before the bell!

[valtos] 15/12/2015 20:49

And then comments on the other parties submission within 2 weeks.

[rettah] 14/12/2015 22:51

December 11, 2015 Each party files a submission on costs.

[weegeordie] 10/12/2015 09:57

.. or Uzbekistan.

[pb01] 10/12/2015 09:49

Debbie,

I could have written the 5 tips for expanding business a slightly different way

1) Make sure you have a good legal team in the likelihood of an asset grab
2) Make sure there's a BIT in place so any dispute can be heard in a fair court
3) Take out Fire insurance
4) Make sure your staff can handle being intimidated
5) Invest anywhere else other than Indonesdia

[debbiegee] 10/12/2015 07:32

The Vice President stressed that Indonesia badly needed more investors to speed up economic growth and to reduce unemployment and therefore on any visit to other countries the government’s representatives always tried to convince investors that investors’ interests would be protected. - See more at: