Carillion Share Discussion Threads

[fenners66] 12/9/2017 12:56

Carillion intended to make a profit for the last 5 years as well - did not manage that!

[lodgeview] 12/9/2017 11:44

Up, up and away!

[kulvinder] 12/9/2017 10:51

kirk 6

11 Sep '17 - 23:10 - 7955 of 7956 0 0

Yes surprised the share price wasn't below 40p today


All depends how you view the news of the director being released yesterday - might be viewed positive as it gets rid of the root cause - up or down take your pick.... but what this tells me is that CLLN intent to stay in business for a lot longer then some Commentators would lead us to believe.

[gkp heros] 12/9/2017 10:44

Close them shorts

[kirk 6] 11/9/2017 23:10

Yes surprised the share price wasn't below 40p today

[the juggler] 11/9/2017 21:16

Like other macho construction companies nobody ever points out or mentions the "elephant in the room". Not the first and won't be the last.
It's the site guys I feel sorry for. All the top guys get to keep their bonuses, they are well-heeled and won't be worrying about how they will pay their bills.

[dealy] 11/9/2017 20:31

Share price performed well today all things considered. A recovery is not priced in but it can still happen

[slaccs] 11/9/2017 15:57

Or you want to keep your dirty secrets in-house!

[fenners66] 11/9/2017 14:39

Well Nom I think you did have your head in the sand about the management - But it seems someone has woken up and made some changes.

However another internal FD appointment and why now?

We can speculate that they found more bad news and it has made the FD's position untenable - surprise!

The problem here though is were there problems under the watch of the previous FD? That no one in the company did anything about.
So if you have had a senior finance role in this company over the last few years, what were you doing?

Sometimes companies get institutionalised - they keep doing things the same way either because they cannot see their mistakes or because they do not want to look.

A new external FD would have no baggage they could lift every stone and say it has nothing to do with them.

[fenners66] 11/9/2017 14:31

To recap on the management discussion

fenners66
1 Sep '17 - 13:50 - 7757 of 7949 1 0 Edit
Who wants a stake in a loss making debt burdened , pension deficit increasing, company?
But of course the new (OLD established no change , because the CEO is now the COO and the previous group FC is now the FD who signed off the last (incorrect?) accounts) management is going to do soooo much better.....

nomdeplume
25 Aug '17 - 15:21 - 7657 of 7949 1 0
The facts are:

a) The management has changed. The Board may not have yet appointed a new CEO, but the old CEO has been sidelined.

b) The new FO may have been an internal appointment, but I seem to remember RCT2 crediting him with finding the problems. (I'm sure RCT2 will correct me if I am mistaken.)

c) It is ridiculous to assume that the current management will not have learnt from past problems.

Please do not accuse me of having my head in the sand. It's obvious that Carillion have serious problems. By all means discuss whether or not the current management will be able to solve them, but it is stupid to suggest that they will carry on making the same mistakes.


RCTurner2
25 Aug '17 - 19:58 - 7661 of 7949
As nom states above the new FD is the one who takes the credit with finding the problems here.

fenners66
25 Aug '17 - 21:02 - 7662 of 7949 0 0 Edit
RCT


However I do still disagree with saying that the first thing he did was order an enquiry.

The first thing he has shown himself to do after appointment on the 1-1-17 was compile and testify to the accuracy and completeness of the 2016 annual accounts. They were HIS no one else signed them off. All of the work on the Group accounts and the audit was done under his watch.

The time to do the investigation and announce any problem with the accounts (if he knew) was on appointment to the position. After all as a new man in day one - you blame the previous FD.

If you think he already knew of the problems and remained tight lipped that is serious and I would not want to cast such aspersions.

Therefore we are to conclude that the RNS is true he knew nothing of the problems through January to May and then lack of cash flow forced his hand.

That alternative says to me that as FC he knew nothing of the accounting problems that would force a massive write off. 5 years profits and getting close to £1bn must rank among the largest write offs in history.

Yet we are to applaud his ignorance?

What FD's anywhere would get away with conducting the whole process of signing off the accounts and then weeks after the AGM discovering they were so wrong?

The role Financial Controller - means just that he was supposed to be in control and was the custodian , he had the responsibility.

It's not as if he missed someone taking £50 from petty cash. He missed the impact of long term contracts amounting to hundreds of millions - the action of making sure the subsidiaries correctly accounted for those fell squarely on his shoulders.

[luckymouse] 11/9/2017 10:48

surprisingly didnt fall that much - appears to be some orders at 40ish anyway

[careful] 11/9/2017 10:40

he share price will be all over the place for the next 12 months.
the only question for serious investors is 'can this company become sound again after a cash injection and restructuring.'?

We start with a market cap of £180m. A turnover of about £5bn, and a solid order book.

I have bought back in this morning.

[oakville] 11/9/2017 10:36

35p target.

[right honorable lord lucan] 11/9/2017 10:23

Incredible. Dead rubbish wood sacked and still this falls

[careful] 11/9/2017 10:09

it should all be in the price.
a financial director leaving today is often bad news but after a disaster such as this it is not surprising.

we have talked about the massively discounted LMI rights issue of last year after the original shares had been trading at almost nothing.

a debt for equity swap is often an excuse to get a company on the cheap.
Shareholders should be given a choice.
They can always sell their rights, which are underwritten for a fee.

[adamb1978] 11/9/2017 09:37

Careful - the problem with where the share price is now is that the RI needs to be pretty bloody large, meaning that current shareholders are less likely to stump up (optically it will look a lot worse as more new shares will be issued compared ot when the price wsa at say 60p, even though each shareholder will only be putting up the same £). Personally I think this is at the point where a debt/equity swap is the only outcome, and therefore its only worth investing once that swap has been done

[fenners66] 11/9/2017 09:33

Is this more of the same?

Another internal appointment


Emma Mercer is appointed Chief Financial Officer with immediate effect. Since joining Carillion in 2008, Emma has held several senior positions, most recently Finance Director of the UK construction business prior to which she was Chief Financial Officer and Senior Vice President of Carillion Canada.

I am looking for the official directorships listed with Companies House and I cannot find much - mostly resigned 2014.
Other than that

"CARILLION TRAINING LIMITED" -not yet filed any accounts
"ACM HEALTH SOLUTIONS LIMITED" Last accounts dormant

Her role above is listed as "accountant" - not showing great enthusiasm

Not withstanding "majority of which relates to exiting markets in the Middle East and Canada"
Canada - where she has experience ......

They wouldn't make the same mistake twice would they? ............

[calahan] 11/9/2017 09:31

@RCT - I assume dealy means fair value of ~80p by 29th September, and calculated using the following highly advance valuation algorithm.

Company issues profit warning on the 10th July, which was precisely 9 week ago today, so fair value today is 9x7 = 63p. Results are due on the 29th September, which is 18 days away from now. So 63+18 = 81p, hence "Fair value is about 80p". And therefore fair value of 174p by end of year.

Valuing companies is easy when you know how!

[careful] 11/9/2017 09:27

share price is probably an option to participate in a rights issue.but a debt for equity deal will crush shareholders.
what to do?
all in the price.

[rcturner2] 11/9/2017 09:15

"Fair value is about 80p"

lol

is that a number you have plucked out of thin air that is higher than the current price?

[buywell3] 11/9/2017 08:51

buywell3 - 21 Jul 2017 - 13:41:15 - 7076 of 7936 Carillion - Charts & News - CLLN
The lift lasted 2 days .................... as I said, and no cash raising as yet

Bad that ..... bank guy should have moved super quick but to be fair the BOD should have moved quicker

Every single one of them should walk