Capital Gearing Share Discussion Threads

[miata] 11/3/2012 23:54

You can spend a couple of weeks in the UK, indeed up to an average of 90 days per year averaged over four tax years.

[knil] 11/3/2012 23:32

I have read through some of the more recent posts and found them very interesting.

I would much appreciate any thoughts on the earlier thread of avoiding capital gains tax by living in the likes of Gibraltar for 5 years.
Does this mean that you have to be totally out of the UK for the whole of the 5 years or can a couple of weeks be spent each year in the UK and that person still be considered as living abroad during that time.

Thanks Knil

[thevoid] 11/3/2012 18:41

MIATA - thank you. A - he bought from the market via a broker and B - YRK came to the AIM market in 2004.

I will ask him to contact the Administrators - Leonard Curtis.

Thanks again.
tv

[miata] 11/3/2012 16:18

For assets which become worthless in the tax year 2009/2010 (6 April 2009 to 5 April 2010) like YRK, a negligible value claim can be made in writing to HM Revenue & Customs now, or in his self-assessment tax return. If approved, a letter from the Administrator should suffice, (YRK is not yet on the Neg list) he can utilise the loss for the 2011/12 tax year.
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A)Did he subscribe for the shares rather than purchase the shares off someone else? B)Was the company a trading company or an eligible trading throughout its active existence? If answers to A and B are yes he may be able to claim against income.

[thevoid] 11/3/2012 13:03

Gengulphus – I noticed your informative thread some weeks ago and would like to seek your assistance.

One of my sons has 1100 York Pharma purchased in 2006. In 2009 he received a letter from his brokers stating that the company had been placed in administration.

All going well, he could have a CGT liability this year. Can he offset this loss against his profits for the 2011/12 tax year - or does he need to seek agreement from HMRC before entering the potential loss on his self-assessment return?

And if he has to apply first, would he still be able to backdate the loss to the 2011/12 tax year?

My son has only has one such skeleton – unfortunately I have a few more.
Thank you,
tv

[rockefella] 10/3/2012 16:10

david77 Thanks for that greatly appreciated have you any ideas on my below post or is it just a simple task of typing all trades in manually.

rockefella - 4 Mar'12 - 09:05 - 245 of 261 edit



Help requested with regards to using cgtcalculator,have been messing about and tried to copy items from my halifax sharedealing account but comes up with a message stating on the lines of error/invalid.

Using the convertor it gives you three options Format 1 or 2,also copying to notepad on microsoft word.
Anyone any clues as best or most appropriate method, appreciated thanks

[sleepy] 09/3/2012 22:58

Looks to me as if it was caused by someone selling 1750 shares today - if you look at chart above you will see that sharp falls are not that unusual

[praipus] 09/3/2012 20:59

Greek goverment bond haircut shock waves? Is a guess.

Next generation of investors learning that Government bonds the world over should be treated as potentially vulneraable to tail risk and defaults all of a sudden. So investors carefully reducing exposure?

Or is it the possibility of interest rate rises making them look less attractive? Just thoughts.

[david77] 09/3/2012 20:42

Share type - shares of the same type (ordinary, preference) in the same company.

30 day rule - if you buy a share that you have sold in the previous 30 days, then the buy should be matched with the earlier sell. That is to prevent you establishing a gain within the CGT limit and then buying again to establish a new buy price to reduce eventual CGT. You can buy within 30 days of selling, it's just that the buy must be matched with the earlier sell to calculate any gain or loss. The calculators do that for you.

Same day matching is simply buying and selling the same share on the same day. Multiple buys are added together, and the same with sells. Again, the calculators will do the work for you. Both calculators report what they are doing so that you can check the maths.

[david77] 09/3/2012 20:30

If you list your deals in the form required by either of th free on-line calculators, then they will do the work for you obeying the taxman's rules.
www.stonebanks.co.uk or www.cgtcalculator.com

[rockefella] 09/3/2012 19:51

I am looking for assistance with regards to calculating gains on shares for tax purposes. I have checked the HMRC site which initially seemed to give a straight forward explanation re profit on buying and selling shares,less capital and costs.

I checked further and found a section referring to working out the gain or loss separately for each type of share.Would this refer to preference shares as opposed to ordinary shares or is there another explanation for the word type.

I then found a section referring to shares of the same kind bought at diferrent times,share identification rules, matching shares.

I then discovered the same day rule matching shares acquired within 30days of selling.

I then discovered reference to S104 holding -shares acquired before the day of selling of the same type in the same company.These are to be pooled and classed as a single asset.

I have three main questions:-
1)What is meant by share type.
2) If all shares are in the same company what is meant by the 30 day rule, does this just mean you can/cannot sell and buy back within this period to avoid tax at the end of the financial year.
3)What is meant by same day rule matching shares, would this just apply to individual shares not falling within S140.
I would be grateful for any explanation re the above.
TIA.

[plasybryn] 09/3/2012 19:06

Anyone know what happened today?

[mranon] 08/3/2012 21:05

Thank you david, that's perfect.
I'll remove my original query as the hiccup has obviously been sorted.
Very much appreciate your time and trouble.

[david77] 08/3/2012 20:21

Try it now

[muddy_40] 06/3/2012 13:41

Miata,

Thanks for answer, thats how I see it, once I leave Baku and should I go to Malaysia I should be free from CGT.

Thanks agains guys.

[zastas] 06/3/2012 13:04

The selfless answers provided by Gengulphus and MIATA are a must to read for many of us.

But everytime I read them, I just feel sad at how abominably complex our tax system is in general , and in particular this CGT. Taxation should so simple that at least the majority of the population should know its rules and rates.

And how anti-business, anti-investment, anti-working it is. You'd be stupid now to start any business here, especially a bank!

And how decent citizens are once again driven out of the country to avoid the confiscation of the saved fruits of their labour. Although for foreigners strangely it remains a good place for the moment to place money in the form of property, at least free of CGT for them.

Many countries now have low or zero taxes. Income taxes are flat in many EE countries, Russia just 16%. NZ remains an example of how radical tax simplification and rationalisation should be conducted.

Belgium still has zero CGT, so that's the country I'd look at to stay for those five years, if you still want to remain within easy visiting range of your tax-suffering friends and family in the USBK.

[miata] 06/3/2012 11:33

It would seem [caveat outside my core knowledge base] that when you cease to be taxable in Azerbaijan (ie after 31/12/12) your realisations of capital gains in Malaysia from 2013 should be free of tax.

[muddy_40] 06/3/2012 08:52

Gengulphus,

Thanks for your answer, It is 5 years since I left UK and I do not intend to return soon at the moment.

I am currently residing in Azerbaijan, and as I understand their CGT is classed as Income tax and payable at income tax rate which was reduced last year from 30 to 20%. I spoke with an accountant in the UK recently and he referred me to an accountant they use here in Baku. I was wondering if anyone could advise before I did go and see this accountant.

I am planning a move to Malaysia this later this year.

M40

[gengulphus] 06/3/2012 07:52

muddy_40,

I am similiar situation to Howard, apart that I have been out of the uk for 5 years this tax year(submitted my P85 to HMRC in April 2007.

I'm not 100% certain (so check before acting on this!) but I think the criterion is 5 full tax years out of the UK. I.e. if your last day of residence in the UK was 5 April 2007 or earlier, you can become resident in the UK again any day from 6 April 2012 onwards without causing yourself to become liable to UK CGT for the period that you were non-resident. But if your last day of residence in the UK was 6 April 2007 or later, you need to wait until 6 April 2013 to become resident again.

I understand I will still be liable to Capital gains in the country I reside at the moment. Which is a little better than the UKs (20%). I am planning moving to another country with zero capital gains. Can this done after selling stock or should it be done before selling stock.

Depends on your current country's CGT rules. And sorry, but I know virtually nothing about any country's CGT rules other than the UK's, so I won't be able to answer the question even if you say what country it is. (However, someone else might - and they pretty certainly won't if you don't say what country it is! I.e. do say what country it is - just don't expect a further reply from me when you do so, because I'm pretty certain I won't be able to add anything useful.)

Gengulphus

[muddy_40] 06/3/2012 04:59

Miata, Genulphus

I am similiar situation to Howard, apart that I have been out of the uk for 5 years this tax year(submitted my P85 to HMRC in April 2007. I understand I will still be liable to Capital gains in the country I reside at the moment. Which is a little better than the UKs (20%). I am planning moving to another country with zero capital gains. Can this done after selling stock or should it be done before selling stock.

M40

[miata] 05/3/2012 08:38

So the question is where (abroad)?

What are you looking for in somewhere to live?

[howard smith] 05/3/2012 06:09

Thanks for the suggestions, Gengulphus, I have every intention of seeking the advice from a tax adviser, I just thought I might get some interesting suggestions off here first.
As to why not pay it, well if I was only paying 18% as I have had to do so previously I would do so but this tax hike to 28% has annoyed me slightly and the extra 10% turns a high tax bill into a stupidly high tax bill to the effect that life abroad for five years is cheaper than the tax payable with plenty left over.

anyway thanks again for your responses, much appreciated.

[gengulphus] 04/3/2012 10:11

howard smith,

Can I just move abroad for five years or so and come back and all is forgotten ...

If I remember correctly, you've got to be non-resident for five full tax years (i.e. at least from and including April 6th one year up to and including April 5th five years later) to take your capital gains out of the UK taxman's reach - and your gains presumably have to be realised while you're non-resident.

However, I am not very expert about the foreign aspects of UK taxation - I just have a random collection of (hopefully correctly) remembered details I've picked up over the years. Furthermore, if the tax saving is big enough to justify the costs of moving abroad, it's easily big enough to justify spending a few hundred pounds (or even a few thousand) on getting professional tax advice. So my real advice is to get that professional tax advice!

I would add that I would be a bit wary about how you use the results of that advice. I was in a similar sort of situation in the tech boom about 12 years ago, and the tax adviser gave me quite a number of options for avoiding CGT, ranging from very simple, straightforward measures up to a complex scheme involving two trusts, a loan from one trust to the other, and various other ingredients. They were quite open about the complexity and risks of the more complex options, and I decided not to go for them - and I'm glad I was, because I'm fairly certain that if I'd gone for the double-trust scheme, I would still be lumbered with all the hassle of dealing with the trusts, but the benefits would probably have vanished in one of the many "anti avoidance measures" added to the tax system since then...

Basically, it's the tax adviser's job to make certain you're aware of the options available to you - but making you aware of an option is not the same thing as recommending it!

Gengulphus