Cadogan Energy Solutions Share Discussion Threads

[shortcpx] 07/2/2021 01:44

Brumbrum, you copy and paste a load of stuff and just have a negative slant on everything. Obviously you're on the side of previous management and that's fine. Simple fact is when it comes to asset backed lending any prudent lender would accept collateral worth more than the loan amount. This is based on common practice and soYou would expect management would do the same on a commercial basis and be advised of the same by their lawyers to cover fluctuations in asset value and cost of enforcement. And by the way the plural of information is just information. Unless you just want people to think you speak with a Borat accent.

[brumbrum79] 06/2/2021 23:32

1hughb
5 Feb '21 - 09:53 - 19709 of 19720
0 0 0
It seems highly unlikely to me that Proger will pay on time, as I imagine they would have said so if they were planning on it. A stock exchange announcement that they've reminded them that they owe the money......

I suppose its a prelude to legal action.

-> yes, I agree. A legal action in italy... an Epic & Wonderful scenario.


The loan was used to invest in new Proger shares by a holding company, so it would seem likely that that's what they might grab after a court case, and then see how much they could get for them. They certainly can't take Proger itself to court, as it's just a holding company that was lent the money. Looks a bit of a stitch-up to me, but I guess we see.

[brumbrum79] 06/2/2021 23:17

Russman
6 Feb '21 - 09:59 - 19716 of 19719
0 0 0
Sounds as though there is room for negotiation with 3rd parties, not Proger.

TIFS PARTECIPAZIONI S.R.L.

MA.LO S.R.L.

They are only 2 other shareholders (minorities) of Proger Ingegneria srl.

PMP S.R.L. is the main shareholder (72,93%) of Proger Ingegneria srl.

[brumbrum79] 06/2/2021 22:20

SHORTCPX
5 Feb '21 - 18:44 - 19714 of 19717
0 0 0
It’s capped at the loan amount and management must have determined the shares are valued far higher as a buffer (like an LTV ratio banks use). So if they have to enforce they’ll just look to get a price to repay their loan rather than fair value.


Are you sure?

'It’s capped at the loan amount'. -> this is true and correct.

'the pledge on proger ingegneria shares is capped at the loan amount'

'and management must have determined the shares are valued far higher as a buffer (like an LTV ratio banks use). So if they have to enforce they’ll just look to get a price to repay their loan rather than fair value.' -> are you sure about your words? this is only your opinion based on no data/informations.

[brumbrum79] 06/2/2021 22:10

itsriskythat
5 Feb '21 - 16:55 - 19713 of 19716
0 0 0
If Cadogan has to take the security on the loan that was offered to them in Feb 2019 by PMP, the outcome for Cadogan would be the same as exercising the call option.

Is that true?

Imho..
No, it's not the same.
For example:

Convertible Loan with Call Option, security by a pledge on shares

1) CPHBV exercises the Call Option

CPHBV -> direct 33% proger ingegneria srl -> indirect 25% proger spa;

2) if pledge on shares was lower than 33%... for example it was on 16% of the proger ingegneria srl...

CPHBV exercises the pledge on shares

CPHBV -> direct 16% proger ingegneria srl -> indirect 12,13% proger spa;
...

There are diffirences in the 2 scenario but the amount invested by CPHBV is the same -> the amount of the loan (13,385 € millions).


Only a stupid manager would like to choose scenario 2...

[russman] 06/2/2021 09:59

Sounds as though there is room for negotiation with 3rd parties, not Proger.

[shortcpx] 05/2/2021 18:48

From a quick search, court ordered sale most likely route. Pretty open and shut if there's non payment unless they've not fulfilled the formalities properly when taking the security (e.g. if it wasn't registered properly etc)

[shortcpx] 05/2/2021 18:44

It's capped at the loan amount and management must have determined the shares are valued far higher as a buffer (like an LTV ratio banks use). So if they have to enforce they'll just look to get a price to repay their loan rather than fair value.

[itsriskythat] 05/2/2021 16:55

If Cadogan has to take the security on the loan that was offered to them in Feb 2019 by PMP, the outcome for Cadogan would be the same as exercising the call option.

Is that true?

[diesel] 05/2/2021 15:36

I should have made clear, this deal looks decidedly risky, if it had been a direct investment/ bond in a public listed company then we would all feel a lot more comfortable.

[shortcpx] 05/2/2021 15:12

Take a step back. The loan is "secured by a pledge on PMP's current participating interest in Proger Ingegneria Srl, up to a maximum guaranteed amount of Euro 13,385,000." They just enforce their security.

[diesel] 05/2/2021 13:39

Does this sound secure?
“Cadogan Petroleum Holdings BV (“CPHBV”) has entered into a Euro 13,385,000 loan agreement with Proger Managers & Partners Srl (“PMP”), a privately owned Italian company whose only interest is a 59.6% participation in Proger Ingegneria Srl (“Proger Ingegneria”), a privately owned company which has a 67.9% participating interest in Proger spa (“Proger..R21;
I actually believe that Proger is a sound business and that it was a good idea for Cadogan to look to other business markets, as a small oiler in the Ukraine is clearly not going to lead to prosperity.

[1hughb] 05/2/2021 09:53

It seems highly unlikely to me that Proger will pay on time, as I imagine they would have said so if they were planning on it. A stock exchange announcement that they've reminded them that they owe the money...... I suppose its a prelude to legal action.
The loan was used to invest in new Proger shares by a holding company, so it would seem likely that that's what they might grab after a court case, and then see how much they could get for them. They certainly can't take Proger itself to court, as it's just a holding company that was lent the money. Looks a bit of a stitch-up to me, but I guess we see.

[spangle93] 04/2/2021 08:57

I thought the most recent board putsch was on the back of dissatisfaction with the Proger loan?

[russman] 04/2/2021 08:17

Prefer the loan to be repaid in full.

[thordon] 03/2/2021 22:11

Brumbrum79 Converted

The Economics
In recent years, by offering integrated services in different sectors, Proger has managed to consolidate its role as a General Engineer able to adapt, through a multidisciplinary approach, to the variability of demand.

2020 will close with a turnover of the Italian Spa alone of around 83 million euros (compared to 89 million in 2019) and a Group turnover of around 130 million euros.

The slight decline recorded in 2020 (-7.3%) is attributable to the postponement of some orders to 2021-2022, due to the epidemiological emergency from COVID-19, despite at the same time the company was called upon to hire a essential strategic role to face the emergency by providing services in the sectors of health, energy, transport logistics and procurement of medical equipment and medical devices.

Also for this reason - and for some recent acquisitions in the maintenance engineering sector - a strong increase in revenues is expected in the three-year period 2020-2022: The turnover forecast of the Italian Spa alone stands at 128.7 million in 2021 and 130, 6 million in 2022.

The compound annual growth rate (CAGR) is expected to be + 13.8%.

The contribution margin will increase from the current 25.6 million to 39.9 million euros in 2021 and 41.1 in 2022.

EBITDA will go from 8.6% to 15.5% in 2022.

Economic data 2020-2022
Income Statement (mln €)

2020

2021

2022

Aggregate

Production value

82.4

128.7

130.6

341.7

Costs of Production

(56.9)

(88.8)

(89.5)

(235.2)

Contribution margin

25.6

39.9

41.1

106.6

Fixed and corporate costs

(17.0)

(25.5)

(25.6)

(68.1)

EBITDA

8.6

14.4

15.5

38.5

EBITDA Margin

10.4%

11.2%

11.9%



FSC provision

(1.2)

(1.5)

(1.8)

(4.5)

Depreciation

(0.7)

(0.9)

(0.7)

(2.3)

EBIT

6.7

12.0

13.0

31.7

EBIT Margin

8.1%

9.3%

10.0%



Financial Management

(1.6)

(1.8)

(1.8)

(5.2)

EBT

5.1

10.2

11.2

26.5

Taxes

(2.0)

(4.1)

(4.5)

(10.6)

Operating result

3.1

6.1

6.7

15.9

[brumbrum79] 03/2/2021 21:49

Russman
29 Jan '21 - 08:11 - 19681 of 19703
0 0 0
Pretty meaningless without net profit figures.

You can find, see and read the complete Income Statement (2020-2022) of Proger Spa here:
hxxp://www.proger.it/gli-economics/ (italian version)

The balance sheet 2020-2022 of Proger Spa are not available -> this is the main problem.

The Consolidated Income Statement & Consolidated Balance Sheet of Proger Group are not available.

Last time I did a mistake, I saw the english version of Proger Spa's web site but I didn't see the italian version. Sorry.



Dati Economici 2020-2022

Conto Economico (mln €) - Income Statement Proger Spa


2020 2021 2022

Valore della Produzione 82,4 128,7 130,6
(Gross revenues)

Costi della Produzione (56,9) (88,8) (89,5)
(Cost of sales)

Margine di Contribuzione 25,6 39,9 41,1
(Gross Margin)

Costi fissi e di corporate(17,0) (25,5) (25,6)
(Administrative expenses)

EBITDA 8,6 14,4 15,5

EBITDA Margin 10,4% 11,2% 11,9%


Accantonametno FSC (1,2) (1,5) (1,8)

Ammortamenti (0,7) (0,9) (0,7)
(D&A)

EBIT 6,7 12,0 13,0

EBIT Margin 8,1% 9,3% 10,0%

Gestione Finanziaria (1,6) (1,8) (1,8)
(Interest/Financial exp)

EBT 5,1 10,2 11,2

Imposte (2,0) (4,1) (4,5)
(Taxes)

Risultato d’esercizio 3,1 6,1 6,7
(Net Profit)

[brumbrum79] 03/2/2021 13:03

Astrogas LLC against geonadra:

Sixth Administrative Court of Appeal
640/12569/19

Administrative appeal A / 855/21539/20 27.10.2020 Presiding Judge: Pilipenko Olena Yevheniivna; Judge-Rapporteur: Pylypenko Olena Yevheniivna, Judge-Member of the Panel: Stepanyuk Anatoliy Germanovych, Judge-Participant of the Panel: Sobkiv Yaroslav Maryanovych Representative of the Appellant: Lawyer Hnatenko Oleksiy Anatoliyovych, Representative of the Plaintiff: Tyshchenko Andriy Vasyliovych: 3rd Company Land Gez Eversiz Trading BV, Appellant: Astrogaz Limited Liability Company,
Appellant: Naftogazsekspluatatsiya Limited Liability Company,
Appellant: State Service of Geology and Subsoil of Ukraine, Defendant Geology and Subsoil Service of Ukraine,
Plaintiff (Applicant): Limited Liability Company "Astrogaz",
3rd person: Limited Liability Company "Naftogazsekspluatatsiya"
on declaring inaction illegal and obligation to take action 02.02.2021 Appointed for trial on 23.02.2021 11:10



REPORT OF AUTOMATED AUTOMATED DISTRIBUTION OF LITIGATION BETWEEN JUDGES
Date and time of the beginning of the automated distribution: 28.01.2021 14:22:40

I: Court: Sixth Administrative Court of Appeal, ID: 4855;

I: The only unique number: 640/12569/19

I: Proceedings number: A / 855/21539/20

I: Entrance number: 21539

I: Specialization: permitting system, supervision (control), implementation of state regulatory policy in the field of economic activity; licensing of types of economic d-ti; development and application of national standards, technical regulations and conformity assessment procedures

I: Distribution took place: Re

I: The complexity of the case: 1.0

I: Information on litigants

And: Total participants: 4

1: State Service of Geology and Subsoil of Ukraine, Type: Defendant (Debtor)

2: Oy Land Gez Eversis Trading BV, Type: 3rd person

3: Astrogaz Limited Liability Company, Type: Plaintiff (Applicant)

4: Limited Liability Company "Naftogazsekspluatatsiya"; Type: 3rd person

I: Information on assigned judges

I: Total number of judges: 1

Assigned to: Glushchenko Yana Borysivna; Staying on vacation

I: Selection of board members

I: Information on excluded judges

I: Total number of excluded judges: 38

[brumbrum79] 03/2/2021 13:00

Astrogas LLC against geonadra:

Шос;тиl1; апе;ляm4;ій 85;ий адм;інo0;ст 88;ат
080;вний суд;
640/12569/19

Адм;інo0;ст 88;ат
080;вна апе;ляm4;ій 85;а ска;ргk2; A/855/21539/20 27.10.2020 гол;овm1;юч 80;й суд;дя: Пил;ипk7;нк 86; Оле;на Євг;енo0;їв 85;а; суд;дя- 76;оп
086;відач: Пил;ипk7;нк 86; Оле;на Євг;енo0;їв 85;а, суд;дя- 91;ча
089;ник кол;егo0;ї: Сте;паl5;юк Ана;тоl3;ій Гер;маl5;ов 80;ч, суд;дя- 91;ча
089;ник кол;егo0;ї: Соб;кіk4; Яро;слk2;в Мар;'ян 86;ви
095; Пре;дсm0;ав 85;ик апе;ляl5;та: Адв;окk2;т Гна;теl5;ко Оле;ксo0;й Ана;тоl3;ій 86;ви
095;, Пре;дсm0;ав 85;ик поз;ивk2;ча: Тищ;енl2;о Анд;ріl1; Вас;илn0;ов 80;ч, 3-я осо;ба: Ком;паl5;ія "Ой лен;д Гез; Еве;рсo0;з Тре;йдo0;нг Бі.h2;і", Зая;внl0;к апе;ляm4;ій 85;ої інс;таl5;ці11;: Тов;арl0;ст 74;о з обм;ежk7;но02; від;поk4;ід 72;ль
085;істю "Асm0;ро 75;аз", Зая;внl0;к апе;ляm4;ій 85;ої інс;таl5;ці11;: Тов;арl0;ст 74;о з обм;ежk7;но02; від;поk4;ід 72;ль
085;істю "Наm2;то 75;аз
077;ксплуатація;", Зая;внl0;к апе;ляm4;ій 85;ої інс;таl5;ці11;: Дер;жаk4;на слу;жбk2; гео;лоk5;ії та над;р Укр;аїl5;и, Від;поk4;ід 72;ч (Боl8;жн 80;к): Дер;жаk4;на слу;жбk2; гео;лоk5;ії та над;р Укр;аїl5;и, Поз;ивk2;ч (Заn3;вн 80;к): Тов;арl0;ст 74;о з обм;ежk7;но02; від;поk4;ід 72;ль
085;істю "Асm0;ро 75;аз", 3-я осо;ба: Тов;арl0;ст 74;о з обм;ежk7;но02; від;поk4;ід 72;ль
085;істю "Наm2;то 75;аз
077;ксплуатація;" про; виз;наl5;ня без;діn3;ль 85;ос
090;і про;тиl7;ра 74;но
102; та зоб;ов'03;за
085;ня вчи;ниm0;и дії; 02.02.2021 При;знk2;че 85;о до суд;овl6;го роз;глn3;ду 23.02.2021 11:10



ЗВІ;Т ПОВ;ТОi6;НО 43;О АВТ;ОМh0;ТИ 47;ОВ
040;НОГО РОЗ;ПОh4;ІЛ 59; СУД;ОВi4;Ї СПР;АВh8; МІЖ; СУД;ДЯi2;И
Дат;а та час; поч;атl2;у авт;омk2;ти 79;ов
072;ного роз;поk6;іл 91;: 28.01.2021 14:22:40

І: Суд;: Шос;тиl1; апе;ляm4;ій 85;ий адм;інo0;ст 88;ат
080;вний суд;;ID: 4855;

I: Єди;ниl1; уні;каl3;ьн 80;й ном;ер: 640/12569/19

I: Ном;ер про;ваk6;же 85;ня: A/855/21539/20

I: Вхі;днl0;й ном;ер: 21539

I: Спе;ціk2;лі 79;ац
110;я: доз;віl3;ьн 86;ї сис;теl4;и, наг;ляk6;у (коl5;тр 86;лю), реа;ліk9;ац10;ї дер;ж-ї рег;улn3;то 88;но
111; пол;ітl0;ки у сфе;рі гос;п-ї д-тo0;; ліц;енk9;ув 72;нн
103; вид;ів гос;поk6;ар 89;ьк
086;ї д-тo0;; роз;роk3;ле 85;ня і зас;тоl9;ув 72;нн
103; нац;іоl5;ал00;ни
093; ста;ндk2;рт10;в, тех;ніm5;ни 93; рег;лаl4;ен 90;ів та про;цеk6;ур оці;нкl0; від;поk4;ід 85;ос
090;і

I: Роз;поk6;іл від;буk4;ся: Пов;тоl8;но

I: Скл;адl5;іс 90;ь спр;авl0;: 1.0

I: Інф;орl4;ац10;я про; уча;снl0;кі 74; суд;овl6;го про;цеl9;у

І: Всь;огl6; уча;снl0;кі 74;: 4

1: Дер;жаk4;на слу;жбk2; гео;лоk5;ії та над;р Укр;аїl5;и;Т
080;п: Від;поk4;ід 72;ч (Боl8;жн 80;к)

2: Ком;паl5;ія "Ой лен;д Гез; Еве;рсo0;з Тре;йдo0;нг Бі.h2;і";Тип: 3-я осо;ба

3: Тов;арl0;ст 74;о з обм;ежk7;но02; від;поk4;ід 72;ль
085;істю "Асm0;ро 75;аз";Тип: Поз;ивk2;ч (Заn3;вн 80;к)

4: Тов;арl0;ст 74;о з обм;ежk7;но02; від;поk4;ід 72;ль
085;істю "Наm2;то 75;аз
077;ксплуатація;";Ти
087;: 3-я осо;ба

І: Інф;орl4;ац10;я про; від;веk6;ен 80;х суд;діk4;

І: Всь;огl6; від;веk6;ен 86; суд;діk4;: 1

Від;веk6;ен 86;: Глу;щеl5;ко Яна; Бор;исo0;вн 72;; Пер;ебm1;ва 85;ня у від;пуl9;тц10;

I: Виб;ір уча;снl0;кі 74; кол;егo0;ї

І: Інф;орl4;ац10;я про; вик;люm5;ен 80;х суд;діk4;

І: Всь;огl6; вик;люm5;ен 86; суд;діk4;: 38

[shortcpx] 03/2/2021 10:16

You give them too much credit lol. They just sit back and wait for the offers to roll in.

[itsriskythat] 03/2/2021 10:05

Love that comment, but even a useless board running a shell has a plan.

[shortcpx] 03/2/2021 10:02

I think the market isn't counting it's chickens until they hatch. In this market they should dump their assets and become a cash shell. Those trade at multiples of cash regardless of the BOD quality.

[targatarga] 03/2/2021 09:46

Management shall continue to take their wages well into the future. The small shareholders will remain in the dark!