Bt Share Discussion Threads

[wllmherk] 01/11/2017 23:44

I would agree DrB,

I have my alarm set for an early rise. To be honest I don't feel confident such has been the negativity around this stock. I need just shy of 300p to break even so guess I will be holding into 2018. I really hope they maintain dividend, I can accept the pain then.

wllm

ps-I wonder if metalsguru will be around tomorrow, he has a shed load in these.

[dr biotech] 01/11/2017 22:48

Me and my wife have earned roughly the same over our 20 year careers. I’ve put more into my money purchase scheme. On current valuations, her average salary scheme is worth 2-3x mine. Unsustainable.

[careful] 01/11/2017 22:21

state pension + company pension + lifetime savings.
life should be cheaper when old, no mortgage, kids gone, no work expenses.

Maybe 40% of final salary will suffice.
(remember favourable tax code, no NI deductions)

[kazoom] 01/11/2017 22:08

pvb - I'm pretty sure those figures quoted are actually correct. Although I'd question the term "promised". Tax Free Lump Sums had not even been thought of in those days.

On the subject of 2/3rds of salary as a pension - what do people really think their pension needs will be in relation to current salary?

Genuine question.

[careful] 01/11/2017 21:34

that is good point will.
but the truth is that the tiny number of people at the top do not make much difference to the health of the company.
unjust and greedy, but those 1 in a million types are irrelevant to the discussion.
(there is a cap, something like £50k pension after which tax relief on contributions cease)

it is the 300,000 members that matter.

[pvb] 01/11/2017 21:31

When I join BT 30 years I was promised that I would be retiring at 60 with almost two thirds of my salary as a pension

1987? Surely you were not promised a pension of two thirds of your salary as a pension? Was it not a maximum of 50%? Admittedly that would have included a tax free lump sum (3 x annual pension?) as well, at retirement.

[willoicc] 01/11/2017 21:22

Funny how all these companies do away with their final salary schemes for staff, but the fat cats with their snouts in the trough continue to receive their final salary benefits.

Its a bit like all the jobs that are offshored to save money. Except for the bosses who always retain their huge undeserved pots of gold.

One law for the rich and another law for the poor.

[eisler] 01/11/2017 21:12

Common sense will prevail - it's not 1974 (thankfully)...

[careful] 01/11/2017 21:04

BT and RMG used to be joined at the hip.
Government owned.
letters and land lines, jobs for life.
Union power.
Generous final salary pensions.
What could change they thought.

All theoretically possible in times of inflation and lower life expectancy.
Retirees had final salary pension that were quickly eroded by inflation.
And they only drew them for a shorter time.

In both cases, RMG and BT it must be sorted.
Things may get rough.
Almost every other company has made this change,
usually preserving already accrued benefits, and generous arrangement to follow.

[pacemaker1000] 01/11/2017 21:03

From an inside point of view I can’t see the scheme closing. Members will be asked to contribute more or receive less, or both as happened last time in 2009.
Saying that there is a divide and conquer strategy that has worked before. As they make up the majority of members the union is more interested in improving the pensions of post 2001 staff who’s current scheme is woeful on its own without comparing it to the ‘gold plated’ pension of the old timers. They would support a proposal that improves this scheme at the deficit of the BTPS.
As a vote would be conducted of ALL members this would sail through so Kazoos has a point that a strike would never happen!

[montyhedge] 01/11/2017 20:48

KazoosRead and learn idiot, they won't take this lying down.http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2017/05/30/unions-absolute-opposition-bt-pension-scheme-closure/

[montyhedge] 01/11/2017 20:41

KazoosDo you want to bet. Cut the pension deficit so shareholders can have dividends,. They could reduced deficit easily with dividend cuts.

[careful] 01/11/2017 20:30

the new Chairman and Gavin Patterson will have to manage BT properly.
The culture will need to be changed.
BT are not strong enough to be one of the few remaining companies to support an expensive pension fund.

[eisler] 01/11/2017 20:28

Strike? Is there not only 33k of contributing members/68k of deferred and over 200k of pensioners? Am I missing something?

[kazoom] 01/11/2017 20:16

monty - DON'T MAKE YOURSELF LOOK AN IDIOT. There would be no majority in the unions opposing a pension reformation.

Do try to keep up and retain the illusion that you have a clue.

[montyhedge] 01/11/2017 20:02

Unions won't have this, cut pensions so shareholders maintain their dividends.

[kazoom] 01/11/2017 19:58

By the way and I'm sure that no-one gives a damn given that there often seem to be "post event" disclosures from some people. I thought would disclose my position.

I posted a few days ago that I had taken out a trading position (at a lower price than shanieboy - so clearly a smart trade!) I decided earlier today to close it for a loss, not because I think the statement will be a disaster, but simply because I have tweaked my strategy to accelerate my gains.

I am still of the view that BT will be trading much higher than now in 12 months time. I have no real view about the close price tomorrow, but I think the other place I have parked my money will give a much better return in 3-6 months.


See I told you it was not interesting.

[eisler] 01/11/2017 18:57

It's the way things have been going for years. The UK's 6000 remaining private sector defined benefit schemes in 2016 saw 35% of them closed to future accrual, up from 12% just ten years earlier. I lost my final salary pension in 2010 through a TUPE process (pensions not protected) and was given a far inferior money purchase product. These schemes will all be dead in the next few years.

[kazoom] 01/11/2017 18:53

Oh and toon1966 (Am I correct in guessing you are 51? )

That would mean that you are in Section C of the scheme?

So the CPI vs RPI change would be slightly bad for you. (But probably still better than the appreciation in "final salary" you would get if still employed by BT).

Closure to new accruals though would have no impact on you, so as a shareholder a clear positive. (The only downside would be that you might have some old friends / former colleagues for whom it would not be so good.

[kazoom] 01/11/2017 18:48

I can't really see that Monty, full closure of the scheme to new accruals would impact less than 30,000 of BT's staff. Many of those would take it on the chin because either :
(1) They have so few years left to contribute it makes liitle difference
or
(2) they actually understand that it's not THAT unreasonable
or
(3) because they're generally apathetic.
or
(4) because they think it is more important to stay onside with the company so that their final salary is as high as possible.

The majority of staff not eligible for the DB scheme at all are unlikely to have much sympathy for those "lucky" enough to have the "Rolls Royce" pension scheme, so would not strike for something they are denied anyway.

Plus it is entirely possible that BT would offer some form of limited sweetner to the <30,000.

I couldn't find any stats on the average number of years active members of the scheme have left to contribute, but I would imagine it is quite a low number.

[careful] 01/11/2017 18:45

Research shows that over 90% of FTSE100 have closed their final salary pension funds.
For FTSE250 companies only 8 remain.
It is expected that they all will disappear with a year or two.

Industrial action is futile.
The new defined benefits schemes are generous and more realistic.
Crazy to strike, why would they want to cripple the company where they work?
Any management that gives in to such pressure would look incompetent.

The negotiation will be about the terms of any new scheme.

[montyhedge] 01/11/2017 17:49

EislerI would say if they tried that, strikes would follow. Employees won't have that surely.