Aviva 8 3/8% Pf Discussion Threads

[yf23_1] 02/4/2012 11:30

should be payment day today

[skyship] 09/1/2012 08:08

Current status of the 4 AVIVA prefs – all cumulative but irredeemable.

# AV.A 8.75% - 109.5p-111.0p – Yld on the offer share price = 7.88%
# AV.B 8.375% - 105.00p-107.5p – Yld on the offer share price = 7.79%
# GACA 8.875% - 101.5p-103.5p – Yld on the offer share price = 8.57%
# GACB 7.875% - 97.75p-99.5p – Yld on the offer share price = 7.91%

NOTES:

A couple of months further on and, surprise surprise, once again GACA is the best value of the 4 prefs. The other three are all pretty well in line.

AV.B & GACB are the next to go XD again – on 1st Feb'12 – paydate: 31st Mar'12.

NB: The yields as shown are NET yields, ie that 8.57% on GACA is 9.52% GROSS.

[skyship] 06/11/2011 15:34

Current status of the 4 AVIVA prefs – all cumulative but irredeemable.

# AV.A 8.75% - 108.5p-111.5p – Yld on the offer share price = 7.85%
# AV.B 8.375% - 104.75p-106.75p – Yld on the offer share price = 7.85%
# GACA 8.875% - 104.00p-107.5p – Yld on the offer share price = 8.26%
# GACB 7.875% - 94.0p-97.25p – Yld on the offer share price = 8.10%

NOTES:
AV.A & GACA both go XD on 9th November - paydate 1st Jan'12

A few months further on and here we are again - GACA is once again the best value of the 4 prefs. The other three are all now reasonably in line.

[skyship] 16/8/2011 16:24

Cathian

1. For the JDT thread simply type JDT into the EPIC box

2. Have recently been buying back into BBYB @ 129p - yield again = 8.3%

[skyship] 16/8/2011 16:21

Current status of the 4 AVIVA prefs – all cumulative but irredeemable.

# AV.A 8.75% - 109.0p-111.5p – Yld on the offer share price = 7.85%
# AV.B 8.375% - 105.75p-109.75p – Yld on the offer share price = 7.63%
# GACA 8.875% - 104.25p-108.0p – Yld on the offer share price = 8.22%
# GACB 7.875% - 93.5p-97.25p – Yld on the offer share price = 8.10%

NOTES:
AV.A & GACA will go XD in November
AV.B & GACB both went XD this month

A few months further on and here we are again - GACA is once again the best value of the 4 prefs. Having just gone XD AV.B is quite absurdly expensive and should be sold – a good time to switch into GACA regardless of the costs involved!

[slj] 10/8/2011 08:14

Thanks jonwig - GACA still a better buy though.

[jonwig] 10/8/2011 08:10

ex div today (4.1875p) if anyone is wondering about the share price fall.

[yf23_1] 23/7/2011 00:06

Sps = Shareprices ?

[cathian] 18/7/2011 14:14

Skyship - Like you I only visit this site occasionally but I very much appreciate the trouble you have taken to respond to my previous post. Many thanks also for the other ideas which I will have a look at. If interest rates remain low for some while yet, as seems possible, then the prefs you referred to on 14th May are all showing a yield in excess of current inflation expectations and are, to my mind atleast, better than leaving money on deposit at the bank although they are, of course, more risky. However, there is some comfort in that the dividends are cumulative although one hopes that the passing of a dividend never becomes a live issue. Incidently, what does Sps stand for? And where do I find JDT?. Sorry to be a nuisance but I'm not altogether familiar with all of the terminology.

[skyship] 14/5/2011 10:16

Cathian - sorry not to have replied to your earler post - I only drop in here very occasionally, usually with the irregular update. If you need to reach me then I will see any post on my JDT thread.

As to the specifics you mentioned:

1. No, I don't believe there to be any difference in security between the two basic Aviva prefs and the two General Accident subsidiary prefs

2. Sure, there is always a small accrued interest element; though it is not an element which can be capitalised as any switch entails the loss of stamp duty, the two commissions and the spread

3. The Sps of all listed fixed interest stocks reflect to some extent future interest rate expectations

Other attractive high-yielders are:

# RECP @ 99p - current yield = 8.08%; gross redemption yield = 8.16%

# BBYB @ 136.5p - current yield = 7.88%

# IFD @ 38p - yield = 9.26%

The first two are prefs. The third is a property company with a not fully covered dividend, but a dividend reaffirmed as recently as last month. They are also on a substantial discount to Net Asset Value, so an upward move is quite likely.

[skyship] 14/5/2011 09:57

Current status with the 4 AVIVA prefs – all cumulative but irredeemable.

# AV.A 8.75% - 112.5p-114.75p – Yld on the offer share price = 7.62%
# AV.B 8.375% - 108.0p-110.25p – Yld on the offer share price = 7.60%
# GACA 8.875% - 110p-112.0p – Yld on the offer share price = 7.92%
# GACB 7.875% - 100p-103.5p – Yld on the offer share price = 7.61%

NOTES:
AV.A & GACA both went XD this month.
AV.B & GACB will go XD in August.
GACA have substantially repaired the temporary undervaluation; and, though XD just this week, they remain the best value of the 4 prefs.

[cathian] 18/3/2011 11:49

SKYSHIP I'm relatively new to the preference share arena so congratulations on making it easy to digest. I just wondered whether Aviva is considered a better covenant than GA and that's why GA looks to be cheaper or might it also be due to accrued interest being taken into account with GA going XD in May. Also is the market starting to take into account a possible Base Rate increase or is that already in the price of prefence shares generally? It's amazing to think that RSA 7.375% preference shares could be bought in April 2003 with a yield of 14%!

[skyship] 12/3/2011 11:53

Continuing my Public Service announcements on the 4 AVIVA prefs – all cumulative but irredeemable.

# AV.A 8.75% - 115.5p-117.75p – Yld on the offer share price = 7.43%
# AV.B 8.375% - 105.25-107.5p – Yld on the offer share price = 7.79%
# GACA 8.875% - 111.5-114.25p – Yld on the offer share price = 7.77%
# GACB 7.875% - 99.0-101.25p – Yld on the offer share price = 7.78%

NOTES:
AV.B & GACB went XD on 2nd Feb'11.
AV.A continue to look overpriced.
GACA have substantially repaired the temporary undervaluation, but are still the best value of the 4 prefs.
AV.A & GACA are the next couple to go XD - that will be 4th May.

[skyship] 14/1/2011 16:37

Continuing my Public Service announcements on the 4 AVIVA prefs – all cumulative but irredeemable.

# AV.A 8.75% - 115.75p-118.5p – Yld on the offer share price = 7.38%
# AV.B 8.375% - 109.5-112.0p – Yld on the offer share price = 7.48%
# GACA 8.875% - 107.0-109.5p – Yld on the offer share price = 8.11%
# GACB 7.875% - 101.5-103.25p – Yld on the offer share price = 7.63%

NOTES:
AV.B & GACB will be going XD sometime next month.
AV.A continue to look overpriced.
GACA continue to look underpriced (in relation to its peers).

[yf23_1] 12/1/2011 14:45

Its famliarity, you feel safer with the name you know.

[skyship] 10/1/2011 17:06

YF23 - I suspect that is exactly why the AV.A/GACA anomaly occurs from time to time - people aren't aware of the Gen. Acc. prefs, ie Aviva in all but name.

Do the stats and you'll see that it is GACA you should be buying, not AV.B

[envirovision] 04/1/2011 15:09

they are not exempt from CG, where did you get that one from LOL.

[lord gnome] 04/1/2011 15:04

No advantage whatsoever unless you are a 40% tax payer, yf23_1 - which I am not. The capital gains exemption doesn't excite me either, because I don't see these making me much money on the capital appreciation side of things. This is a nice safe high yield alternative to getting sweet fa for your cash deposits in a bank or building society.

[yf23_1] 04/1/2011 14:59

dummy trades indicate to buy
AV.A 118p
AV.B 111p

full offer for AV.A, 1p less for AV.B

I'm tempted

BTW these are paid net of tax so is it true there is no advantage holding inside an ISA, I hold mine outside as my ISAs fully invested anyway.

[yf23_1] 04/1/2011 14:50

SKYSHIP
Considering AV.B are xd next month, and there being an implied 2p difference in divi accrued bewteen AV.A, AV.B has some catching up to do.
Not sure about GACA and GACB, not heard of them up to today but I'll have a look.

[skyship] 12/12/2010 18:39

There are 4 AVIVA prefs – all cumulative but irredeemable. For some reason, presumably associated with institutional buying or selling at any point in time, the 4 prefs offer anomalous pricing opportunities. I've taken advantage in the past; and will continue to do so.

Here is the current pricing. No guessing where the anomaly is in this case:

# AV.A 8.75% - 113-116.5p – Yld on the offer share price = 7.51%
# AV.B 8.375% - 107.5-110.0p – Yld on the offer share price = 7.61%
# GACA 8.875% - 106.5-110.5p – Yld on the offer share price = 8.03%
# GACB 7.875% - 101.5-106.0p – Yld on the offer share price = 7.43%

[lord gnome] 12/8/2010 13:52

SKYSHIP - I think you miss my point. Prefs are sold 'dirty' i.e. there is some element in the price that allows for dividend accrual. They are not sold clean like gilts. Therefore, the closer a pref is to ex-div date the more the share price will reflect the divi to come. Teaching you to suck eggs, I know.

[mac15] 12/8/2010 12:16

Sold out on Av.b today for 108.75 (EX DIV) which seems a good price for these in comparison with the other av prefs. Does look like the MMs want stock. GACA is a better bargain.