Atalaya Mining Share Discussion Threads

[pawsche] 17/4/2019 10:27

@Husbod.. Van can't - unless he's got a "purple" sock-puppet stashed away somewhere. :-)

[husbod] 17/4/2019 09:38

Looks like van has marked you down for that positive post waterloo

[superbobtaylor] 16/4/2019 12:22

Thanks for all of that VHJ. I'm not all that bothered about the mechanics of the payment structure.

No idea why post 12126 aimed at me.....

I am also not particularly interested in the strategic review. More interested in the profit reported by the company.

SBT

[rougepierre] 16/4/2019 11:45

Patience Mr O...makes more profit than trading...

[vanhelsingjr] 16/4/2019 11:11

Riotinto Ltd sold the shares of la Compañí;a de Minas de Riotinto in 1956 but kept a management contract and 49% of Riotinto Minera (Cerro Colorado and Huelva smelter) shares till 1992. Just for your information SBT

[vanhelsingjr] 16/4/2019 11:06

no SBT, 90% of the money is received on date of shipment, the final balance due is paid once QP is passed and final analysis and weight are agreed. For normal QPs the final payment is received about three months after shipment but if QP exceed MAMA +2, final payment is delayed until qp price is known.
Why negative SBT?, if you have no idea on how business works it is up to you to learn and talk later.
If your information is coming from atym, I am very worry, most probably they are misleading shareholders as usual.
Related to new reserves, Riotinto has been operated by Riotinto ltd until 1992 and Riotinto remained as consultant till 1998 and everybody knows that Riotinto is a first class company nothing to learn from Atym . Cerro Colorado including Filón Sur, San Dionisio (Corta Atalaya) and San Antonio were very well known since 1975.
Increasing on reserves are coming from reducing cutoff and adding resources evaluated in the old times through non Jorc compliant methodologies, once atym has drilled and validated them. San Dionisio and San Antonio are mainly polymet ores needing a new treatment plant.
You have above most of the reasons for a discouraging DD
SBT ask to atym about the results of the strategic review, Why they are not reporting to the market?

[laurence llewelyn binliner] 15/4/2019 18:13

#Van, I gave you a tick for the QP explanation, it's only fair, as it's always been a puzzle to me.. :o)

[superbobtaylor] 15/4/2019 17:19

Big volume today and VHJ active and, as always, negative...... Rinse and repeat.

SBT

[superbobtaylor] 15/4/2019 17:17

Yeah that all sounds right VHJ, I said it was complicated!

Anyway the takeaway is that there is a quite a long lag between the price being set and ATYM getting their money, hence the often strange difference in the price they report and the current price.

It's not really worth worrying about though as it's all just swings and roundabouts. Higher CU price still means more $$!

SBT

[vanhelsingjr] 15/4/2019 17:03

SBT, quotation period, delivery period or shipping date are completely different
concepts, usually the way is:
1. The miner prepare a provisional invoice based on analysis and weight on shipping port made by independent surveyor and gets 90% of the value. Cu price for the provisional invoice use to be the average of the shipping month.
2. Final invoice is issued once the final weight and quality is assessed at the port of destination by an independent surveyor, the parties agree on definitive weight and quality according to contract clauses, if there is no agreement an umpire shall decide finally, and the quotation period has elapsed.
3. The quotation period is defined as the monthly average of the month defined, could be the month of shipment or minus or plus the months defined in the commercial contact. According to our information in the existing offtake contracts the QP is defined by the buyer on the shipping date from minus 6 MAMA to plus 6 MAMA. This kind of QP is very unusual because is very negative for the miner but it seems that has been accepted by Emed in the old times.
4. Once final invoice is issued, the buyer will pay the difference or will be reimbursed. In case of arbitration the final invoice is delayed until umpire decision but the QP is not changed and the miner is waiting only for 10% of the invoice
The QP cannot be uncertain, otherwise the miner or the smelter cannot protect the price fluctuation. In volatile market you can make your calculations and evaluate the effect on the real price received by the miner compare with average of the period and the potential benefit for a trader acting as offtaker playing with different QP with the miner and the smelter. 100% of Atym concentrates are going to traders acting as offtakers: Trafigura and LDC

[husbod] 15/4/2019 16:44

Thanks SBT

[superbobtaylor] 15/4/2019 15:11

Husbod,

I would have to check my correspondence from the company to be sure but it is something like

1. ATYM ship Cu [price is now agreed, company gets small up front amount, say 10%]
2. Shipment takes x weeks to arrive at smelter (one smelter we ship to is in CN)
3. Smelter now verifies the stated grade and purity. They wont pay until they are sure of exactly what they are buying.
4. If smelter agrees with ATYMs assessment of concentration and purity etc they pay the difference.
5. If smelter disagrees the issue has to be sorted before any payment is made
6. Company therefore gets full payment x weeks after shipping. If the price has gone up in the mean time good for the smelter, if it has gone down good for us....

SBT

[mronions] 15/4/2019 14:38

VILX sub 2

[husbod] 15/4/2019 14:05

Van I am inclined to believe that is indeed the truth in which case it is incumbent upon the Company, who announced the Review in the first place, to announce that nothing has come of it (except wasted advisors fees and management time) and that it is business as normal. With a reluctant major shareholder.

[husbod] 15/4/2019 14:00

I'm struggling SuperBob. So the price reported by us is the price at the point of shipping and the off-loaders pay at the Cu price three months later? Seems an odd arrangement particularly as we lose out in a falling Cu price market.So on that basis Riotinto we should stockpile if we think prices are rising and ship it out if we think they will fall.Surely the price actually being paid should be the reported price.And presumably the off take agreement requires us to ship within a specified period subject to the old force majeure etc

[mronions] 15/4/2019 13:38

On the DD , the people looking did not get any special access . They had to look at what information was available to everyone. They would have gone on the same tour I did , nothing extra.

[riotinted_specs] 15/4/2019 12:34

Quite right SuperBob, also - like any miner - Atalaya can and does stockpile copper to flexibly sell at a better day to day or week to week copper price.

[superbobtaylor] 15/4/2019 11:40

Husbod,

I asked the company about the pricing some years ago. It is all a bit complicated but basically the realised price the company reports reflects an ~3 month lag between shipping and payment (longer if there is a dispute at the smelter). Therefore if the actual Cu price drops in this 3 month period the achieved price can be higher than the prevailing price.

SBT

[vanhelsingjr] 15/4/2019 10:59

hxxp://huelva24.com/art/124948/william-alexander-mackay-la-union-entre-lybster-y-huelva

[vanhelsingjr] 15/4/2019 10:47

Review has failed, nobody expressed binding interest. DD was extremely negative. That is the truth.

[waterloo01] 15/4/2019 10:18

I understand that the review is ongoing with BMO and that all options remain including mergers, acquisitions and sale.

[husbod] 15/4/2019 10:11

Fermenting revolution as usual erric!Steady as she goes with ATYM but still no update on the company review. Has it died a death or what?Slightly puzzled, as usual, by the comments on the price achieved for our copper - we seem to be getting slightly more than the market rate despite all our production being taken up under the off take agreements. I thought the off take agreements involved a small discount on the market price.

[erric] 15/4/2019 09:35

Now,now, children.
Just because I am dodging pirates off the coast of Somalia doesn’t mean I’m not looking in on our BB.
Mind you, it’s nice to have some conversation even if it’s an old repeat - where’s bookworm when you need him, if only to bring in the nougat and jambon.