Atalaya Mining Share Discussion Threads

[rougepierre] 03/3/2017 13:11

Sorry...being stupid here...

The Placing was at 142.5....(4.75p old money)

It's obviously somebody who took a big slug getting their money back (or more)...

I wonder when they will finish...and why do they mainly do it in the first hour or two of dealing...?

[rougepierre] 03/3/2017 13:08

It's the 5,000 seller that's keeping this market down...

Day after day...but they usually seem to sell when the price is weaker....

Could it be an existing holder wanting to buy a huge slug at a low price, trickling out 5,000 at a time to get it down...?

No reasonable explanation...

We are throwing off positive cashflow at $5 million a month...at least...

Cheap as chips IMHO...

[sirmoori] 03/3/2017 13:01

Three sets of 5K sells today. Who IS that?

[husbod] 03/3/2017 12:54

And redder still

[husbod] 03/3/2017 12:01

Dream on rouge.

All I can see is that we are in the red.

[rougepierre] 03/3/2017 11:28

In the meantime, don't get caught out Guys!

THEY WANT YOUR SHARES....!!!!

Yes the Bid for 2500 is 142 but...the Offer is 143.8...

AND

I've just been Bid 140.36 for 35,000 shares...YES THIRTY FIVE THOUSAND...

That's a huge turnaround, even since yesterday, when I could only sell 1500 at the price...

Looks like there's a big buyer around again...loading up before the results...?

Onwards and upwards...

[husbod] 03/3/2017 10:40

Thanks for that info LLB (5842) - interesting.

Seems to me we might want to get a few years plus more expansion under the belt before we even think about moving up a market.

Who knows though - we could wake up to an RNS that Traf have reversed some or all of their local assets into the company under a mutually advantageous arrangement.

Either way I suspect we will see gradual share price rises rather than anything dramatic as, bar something like the above, there is no particular reason for pyrotechnics.

The judge is presumably busy issuing judgements on cases he heard before ours.

[laurence llewelyn binliner] 03/3/2017 10:38

#RP, interesting, I got a decimal point 1 place too far to the right on the LSE calculator..!

It's affordable yes, but do we really need it if we don't need to raise funding..? We can access all the funding we need for off takes, without giving anyone 10% of the funds raised in fees..

But we also need to meet the 3 years cash generative accounts, and the 75% rule first..

[rougepierre] 03/3/2017 10:30

Sorry LLB but you're not correct there mate. What you have quoted seems to be for a Premium Listing, which we would certainly need when we reach FTSE350 MCap size (or if we choose to enter the Allshare Index earlier...

First can I make clear that I'm not talking about being in the FTSE350 NOW. Only when our MCap qualifies. But there is nothing to stop us applying to join the Official List of the Main Market...

Surely this is a more appropriate place given the stigma attached to AIM and carries more cache...

There are only about 50 AIM Companies bigger than us.

Yes, you have to have 25% Free Float for any Listing, whether Standard or Premium. We actually have 27.46%, so we qualify (see definition below):

"Public float or free float represents the portion of shares of a corporation that are in the hands of public investors as opposed to locked-in stock held by promoters, company officers, controlling-interest investors, or government."

Majedie does not qualify as an Insider, but Jose Lopez and Alberto do...

A Standard Listing does NOT require a 3 year revenue track record, it simply requires 3 years' Audited Accounts

And if you look at the rest of the requirements on the attached, there is NOTHING to stop us listing now...

hxxps://www.pwc.com/mn/en/capital-markets/assets/mn_successful_listing_in_london_eng.pdf

If instead we wanted to get a Premium Listing, so that we would be included within the FTSE Index (which has attractions or even requirement for some Institutions, such as Pension Funds, the bar is set higher:

In particular, as you correctly state, we would need 3 years of "revenue earning" which in my opinion means that the earliest we could apply for a Premium Listing would be after publication of the 2018 Annual Accounts in, say March 2019.

If we don't have a Market Cap of over £400 million by then (336p per share), I think we should all be severely disappointed, as we were there only 3 years ago....

However, the Constituents of the FTSE350 are determined by their Dividend Yield record and the relative Market Capitalisation of the 350 largest companies listed on the FTSE100 plus the FTSE250...so currently, CMC Markets is the smallest FTSE250 Company (and therefore FTSE350), with a MCap of £339 million, but they are certain to drop out at the next Constituent Review...

I hope all the above is easy to understand and that my position is clear...

BTW I did pass my Stock Exchange exams in 1982, at a time when individuals could be Members of the London Stock Exchange. Since then Regulation has multiplied massively and changed out of all recognition and although I have prepared AIM qualifying Accounts and published them on the AIM Market of the London Stock Exchange, the Main Market Regulations are more onerous (as are the Accounting requirements).

And in particular, the concept of Standard Listing, to add to what is now called Premium Listing, have only been introduced relatively recently, to encourage Companies to join the Main Market (in the process enticing them away from AIM...hallelujah).

So to conclude...I believe we should seek a Standard Listing and join the Official List as soon as possible, thereby moving away from AIM...

I believe we should declare a Dividend no later than mid 2018 and establish a progressive Dividend Policy...

And I believe we shall be in a position to obtain a Premium Listing and an Allshare Listing no later than mid 2019, with the prospect of joining the FTSE350 maybe in 2020/2021, depending on the copper price, the progress of our Touro acquisition and any further development and diversification...

Surely these are reasonable ambitions...?

AIMHO as usual...

[langostino] 03/3/2017 10:22

rp - you do not just invite yourself in to the FTSE350. You need a market cap of at least £400m for the invitation.

... having previously moved to the Main Market, of course. I thought you had taken stockbroker classes!

[rougepierre] 03/3/2017 10:16

OK...so I've used the London Stock Exchange Fees Calculator...

The Admission Fee would be £105,805 + VAT = £126,966

The Annual Fee would be £7360 + VAT = £8832.24

Based on a MCap of £171m...

Are you saying we can't afford that?

[mds2028] 03/3/2017 08:57

Hi LLB,
I didn't realise you needed 3 years cash generating accounts, only two years to go on that front.
By listing and raising at the same time we could issue enough shares to comfortably take us over the 25% whilst also raising the money to help pay off the final equipment payments for our new mine (we could easily pay deposits from our profits in the coming years).

Unbelievable the judge hasn't found all his points of law to tell Astor to take a running jump, this can be the only reason for him delaying telling them the inevitable surely?

[rougepierre] 03/3/2017 08:33

I'm very clear.

We should move to the FTSE350 ASAP...

We will pay a dividend, even token, no later than 2018...

AIMHO as usual...

[laurence llewelyn binliner] 03/3/2017 08:32

#MDS.. welcome back.. and yes, it's all coming together now..!

On a full listing on the main market, we can't meet the criteria currently, as a main listing must have 25% or more free float in public hands, we are 78.5% II owned, + we need 3 years cash generating accounts.

On main listing costs.. AIM vs FTSE, a main listing costs £1M, and £4-500K per year service charge just to keep it, if we need cash then our current share holders have plenty available for off takes so we wouldn't need to tap the market, on top of that the fees for tapping the market are 7-10% of cash raised, which is money down the Privvy..!, so it's a very expensive fix if you don't need it..

[sirmoori] 03/3/2017 07:49

Extract from yesterday's ANZ Commodities Note:

Supply issues
Disruptions in the copper market have been
uncharacteristically low over the past 12 months. We
calculate that the level of unplanned disruptions
(technical issues, strikes, weather, etc) represented only
4.1% of total supply in 2016. This is the lowest level of
disruptions in 12 years.
However, this has come to an abrupt end with issues in
Indonesia and Chile just the start of disruptions we
expect to hit the metal markets in 2017.
The strike at Escondida is now three weeks old, and is
already tightening the copper concentrate market.
However, with both parties still some distance apart, it
raises the risk of further strike action in the Chile copper
industry. We calculate that nearly 14% of world mine
supply is under threat from strike-related disruptions due
to contracts expiring in mines in Chile.
In Indonesia, despite the government partly overturning
the ban on raw material exports, a delay in issuing new
mining and export permits has seen Freeport shut its
Grasberg copper mine.
Assuming we return to the average level of disruption in
2017, this could take out another 300kt of copper
(compared with the level of disruptions in 2016). A jump
to elevated levels, as seen during years with aboveaverage
strike activity in Chile, could lead to a supply
deficit of 500kt.

[mds2028] 03/3/2017 07:37

true Rich1e, but as we know our BOD have been truly dreadful in communication and I think this is their culture and so will not change.
I really can't see them painting a strategic plan for the business and so we are left to ponder on what will they do next.

My biggest concern as a long term hold, is we just do not know the company strategic plan and neither does Mr Market, hence we stay undervalued until this becomes clearer.

[rich1e] 03/3/2017 07:11

That sounds OK to me MDS, but includes a lot of supposition, we don’t know that they will ever list on the 350 and we don’t know that they wont. We don’t know that they will ever pay divi’s and we don’t know that they wont. And the list of other scenarios will be endless, but will inevitably lead to people introducing scenarios that may or may not happen, creating a wish list and worries that may or may not exist.

I agree with you that we are making great progress and I am hopeful that they’ll make the best decisions for all share holders going forward.

[mds2028] 03/3/2017 04:54

Hi Gents,
It's been a while since posting and looks like we are making great progress, still regularly catch up on all the posts and GREAT contributions by all.

A thought...

The objective for our 4 main holders is to increase their asset value and not to just have off takes.
Would it be best alongside all the great news and profits to be announce soon that we should look to the FTSE350 in the coming year?
As we will need a load of cash for our new exciting project, why not raise the cash as part of the 350 launch, so creating greater liquidity and allow institutions in.
Yes by doing this and not allowing existing shareholders to buy in (unless on the open market) we will be diluted, however the value of the business will be increased by the money raised, as it will be used to buy tangible assets for the new mine.
So existing shareholders will not lose out in value per share, greater liquidity, we are on the 350 so better regulation and trading platform than the hopeless and becoming more discredited AIM. Finally we remain debt free and still generate cash for div's, yes the div's will be reduced per share but thats teh only down side I can see.

thoughts and feedback would be appreciated.

[waterloo01] 02/3/2017 19:27

One day we'll find some large buys going through and find one or more funds buying in. It will probably have no relation to news just someone making a decision. The more they show steady and profitable operations the closer that must become. Depends if we are in a value trap (as someone suggested). Either way, I don't think at this time you could describe ATYM as a 'risky' or 'blue sky' investment,and for many years, especially in Harry's days, that could not be said.

[nedludd] 02/3/2017 18:55

RP.Thank you for reply.

[rougepierre] 02/3/2017 17:50

Hi nedludd...it was pure speculation...

If you reread the post, it was a calculation based on the Options being granted on the last day before entering the closed period (i.e. one month before the results).

I actually don't know when the results will be published. I was simply saying that in theory they could be published on 24th March...I certainly used to publish mine well inside 3 months...

the Financial Diary on LSE simply says that they were published on 22 April 2016 (10 May in 2015...), but we had no CFO then. TDDI says 24/4/2017

The Half Year Results were published on 7 September 2016 (10 September 2015), but in 2014 they were published on15 August (albeit for less complex company...)

Frankly, 24 March is eminently doable and it would impress the City and Institutions...

RTZ will publish its Annual Report to 31 December 2016 tomorrow. Glendora on 8 March 2017. We're much less complex. Why can't we be publish by the end of March? People only take as long as they do because they can...

We need our Finals and Q1 as soon as is possible...

AIMHO as usual...

[laurence llewelyn binliner] 02/3/2017 15:42

Coldeco CEO... More weight to the case for Copper.. :o), and ONLY -$13BN in debt..!

[acamas] 02/3/2017 15:22

waterloo01,

If I comprehend you correctly then Quality and Value must come to the surface with this share. It is simple logic we supply copper they supply a big fat dollop of cash in our Bank Account simples!