Accsys Technologies Share Discussion Threads

[busraker1] 31/7/2007 09:02

power,

The price is only reacting to the correction in US stock markets, like nearly every other stock.

Here's a useful post from iii:-

During a recent conversation with a friend (who used to be a production manager at BSW) another modified wood product (Thermowood) was mentioned. I contacted Accsys to find out if they knew about it and also to see if they saw it as direct competition. I have copied their response for anyone who is interested in the detail.

As & when I have spare funds, I'll be buying. Happy to pay Euros 4.50, even happier to buy more at Euros 3.50.

Thanks, Inthetin. As far as we know there is no real competition for Accoya™, at least not now, and nothing that we can see as realistically offering competition, at least not for some time to come.

We are familiar with the various thermally modified wood products. These address generally quite different market opportunities from Accoya™ owing to different performance attributes. The principal differences in properties relate to strength, durability and dimensional stability. Thermal modification improves certain of wood's properties by breaking down the length of some of the longer chain molecules from which wood is composed. This chemical change makes the wood slightly less digestible, hence more durable. To achieve greater durability the processors must "cook" the wood for longer. This breaks the chains further. The principal side-effect is in terms of the strength: essentially, the more durable, the weaker. At the higher levels of durability the wood becomes extremely brittle and unable to deal with even moderate mechanical forces (nailing or gusts of wind, e.g. for cladding).

For thermally modified wood the maximum durability (which is a very brittle product indeed) is debated widely. Independent research published in Holz-Zentralblatt in late 2005 (regrettably I cannot find my copy but am seeking it through our German distributor) indicated that the most durable level achieved for the main 4 thermal modification processes was Class III. (Class I is highest – suitable for in-ground use, Class V is lowest – dry, indoor use only). For some unclear reason certain promoters of thermal modification processes claim much higher durability levels, which sadly undermines the credibility of other manufacturers' products.

Accoya™, by contrast with thermally modified woods, is certified as durability Class I. (Indeed, independent reviewers even describe as setting an even higher standard.) This is the highest possible durability standard in the European classification model. Moreover, it has no meaningful loss of strength - hence Accoya™ has been tested and proven suitable for building heavy traffic bridges, a major and indeed revolutionary opportunity for Titan Wood. Accoya™ retains the original colour of the wood, and is amenable to staining if other colours are desired, and is much more UV stable than the underlying wood species (suitable therefore for those seeking natural wood colours). Accoya™ has dramatically improved dimensional stability (orders of magnitude superior to thermally modified wood) which make it extremely suitable for applications where the wood will be coated (e.g. siding or cladding, windows and doors), since coatings last much longer. (Accoya™'s production process also removes and helps more evenly distribute resin in the wood, further improving coatings benefits.) Accoya™'s exceptional dimensional stability makes it extremely valuable for applications where precise mechanical tolerances are needed, for instance in demanding joinery applications. Accoya™ has an extremely low equilibrium moisture content, so it is considerably more thermally efficient than other species. Accoya™'s hardness and machining properties are improved, which make it highly desired by carpenters working with the material.

There is certainly room for different types of modification, and I for one find the thermal concept interesting. It does not, however, overlap very much with our product. The greatest concern we have is that it is being sold by some producers in a way which can harm all other parties. I have heard speeches by scientific folk involved in thermal wood (VTT, in fact) and they have been very accurate; some of the sales pitches by other promoters of thermally modified woods, however, are not, which may bring short term benefits to the companies involved but in the long run will undermine consumers' faith in their product, and potentially modified wood in general. Thermowood is the brand of Finnforest which is an excellent company and I would have no hesitation recommending it where the application is appropriate.

I hope this answers your query adequately.

Eddie Pratt

[asparks] 31/7/2007 08:26

back up we go again

[power] 30/7/2007 17:53

Bashir may be correct, without knowing why. ....?
But I have doubts now confirmed by the price , and worse its trend .

We shoulod have sold last week. Damn ...the benefit of hindsight .

[busraker1] 27/7/2007 11:58

Problem is there's hardly any PI's on here for you to frighten, so it isn't really worth the effort. Anyway, each to their own.

[ba5hir is back] 27/7/2007 10:43

More falls today and more to come.

[g1ll1s] 26/7/2007 17:22

Go away Ba5hir, we were doing very nicely on this thread without you, you add nothing constructive............filtered

[ba5hir is back] 26/7/2007 11:08

Hope potential?

The aim market is littered with hope potential jam tomorrow stocks. However its eps that investors need not hope!

[theo13] 26/7/2007 11:03

Strange that no-one has mentioned the excellent Lemming Investors report on Accsys a couple of weeks ago. It's a subscription site so I won't put any detail, suffice to say that it pointed out the huge potential of this product.

[ba5hir is back] 26/7/2007 10:18

No and I dont expect it to go down in a straigth line but down it should go.

[asparks] 26/7/2007 10:08

stop pannicking. we are only down to ehere we were at the start of the month. hardly a drop. do you expect to go up in a straight line? I dont.

[ba5hir is back] 26/7/2007 09:44

Its like all these jam tomorrow stories revenue does not always equate into profit.

If the fall gains momentum it could fall as fast as it has risen.

[philjeans] 26/7/2007 09:42

The M/C promises unrivalled success on a global basis; the fact is they have yet to sell virtually any treated wood.

Work it out yourselves.

[ba5hir is back] 26/7/2007 09:37

I think this will suffer a major correction on the downside now.

[busraker1] 25/7/2007 22:22

Thanks hew,

shawzie, the bridges won't be painted, but they might be coated with a clear coat of Sikkens or whatever. However, Sikkens are offering 10 year guarantees on their coatings when applied to Accoya and a 30 year guarantee for one coating product on Accoya but I haven't worked out what it is yet. Either way these are much longer maintenance cycles than normal wood. Also, the wood could be left uncoated if they chose.

[damanko] 25/7/2007 22:19

Ditto to Hew's comments. Though I believe that pine was actually cited back in the IPO documentation, nearly 2 years ago. Good to see we're not barking up etc etc.........

Sometimes a good (prospective) investment can be discussed until it becomes over complicated. Haven't really seen it happen until recently with Accsys. And then only in BB terms.

For some inexplicable reason this thread has attracted sensible discussion - often from:

a) people who appear to know what they are talking about lumber wise.
b) investors who recognised serious potential.

Long may that continue. However, I have to say that virtually all the press comment I have seen in some 21 months has been positive, and, unusually - has never mentioned serious competition. Very unusual.

[hew] 25/7/2007 18:18

busraker,

Thank you for the informative postings in your discussion with power. You added to what is available on the Accsys web site. (Also to power for giving relevant industry experience).

[shawzie] 25/7/2007 17:28

"- - - - - the bridges contract with the Province of Friesland. Extensive research and product development confirmed the excellent properties of our material, with projected life of 80 years in this demanding structural application. The award opens up a major new market segment for your Company."

Does anyone know if this bridge will be painted? Is 80 years not a reasonable lifespan with perhaps little maintenance?

[power] 25/7/2007 16:35

Good news . Trading it instead of dumping seems sensible now with hyour info to hand. No idea where i got the apparently erronoeus Eucalypto info frm .


Grateful
B Rgrds

[busraker1] 25/7/2007 15:40

power,

I have the Dutch KOMO Product Certificate here which is the official technical specification. It says "Accoya is based on wood acetylation of Radiata pine"

Anyway, all the best to you. It will either sell or it won't! Thankfully, it only costs them about £400/m3 I think to make the stuff so if selling at £1200/m3, which is way ahead of their previously expected price point, doesn't work, they can just bring the price down til it does.

They have said that they have priced it at a level that the market can take, so they obviously have reason for it. You wouldn't sell it for less than you could get.

[power] 25/7/2007 13:25

Buskraker
Hey many thanks for the research I dont have time to do it right now so its much appreciated.
I'm certain I saw an article last year detailing the wood as Eucalyptus. However they do refer to 'fast growing woods' which includes both the Pines (soft) and Eucalyp (hard). Maybe they use both .

But whatever it is, expensive will not create a massive market.

B regrds

[asparks] 25/7/2007 12:53

dont know why peeps are panicking -its just drifting on low vol and poor market conditions. The next big deal will send this soaring

[busraker1] 25/7/2007 12:52

Old news, but this is what the Germans think of it.....

Roggemann sign exclusive agreement to launch Accoya™ wood in the German market - 02/08/2006

Titan Wood BV announces that it has entered into a cooperation agreement with the Roggemann Group, of Germany.

The exclusive agreement, between Accoya™ producer Titan Wood, based in Arnhem, the Netherlands and the Roggemann Group from Bremen, Germany, one of the leading German timber traders, is to bring an innovative new product in the wood industry to the German market. Accoya™, a "new wood species" is extremely durable, reliable and dimensionally stable. It is created by the modification of sustainable wood species, with low natural performance attributes, through a process of acetylation.

Accoya™ wood, with its extraordinary technical and ecological benefits, is the ultimate wood for high quality outdoor applications such as doors, windows, cladding, decking and external wooden constructions. The cooperative agreement, signed earlier this month, will result in the first deliveries of the product to Germany this year.

Carl Jastram, Business Development and Purchasing Manager for Roggemann, said, "Looking at the outstanding technological and environmental benefits, the Roggemann Group is convinced that Accoya™ wood will shortly achieve a considerable market share in Germany. We see this product meeting the demand for high performance wood that satisfies the expectations of quality end products that German consumers have come to expect".

He went on to say, "The work that Roggemann has done with trial customers indicates that the performance is sufficiently good that it should not only give a strong selling advantage, but that it should also help to reverse the tide of manufacturers (and consumers) switching from wood to plastics and other less environmentally friendly alternatives".

Bert Kattenbroek, Sales & Marketing Manager at Titan Wood, added, "It is the exceptional material properties of acetylated wood which convinced the experts at Roggemann to work with us. Early in 2005 the Roggemann business development team established workgroups with leading window manufacturers. This exclusive agreement with Roggemann for selling Accoya™ wood in Germany, with rights also to sell in Poland, is the culmination of eighteen months of close co-operation".

The company group Enno Roggemann was set up in 1948 in Bremen and later on expanded with additional outlets in Lüneburg, Harsum, Ellerbek, Basdorf, Niemberg (g) Coesfeld and Georgensgmünd.

With their eight warehouses the Roggemann Group has a turnover of more than 300,000 m3 per year. A fleet of over 100 trucks delivers the products to trading companies, joineries and industrial producers. In total Roggemann employs over 400 people.

A group of nearly fifty sales staff from the Roggemann Group has received training at Titan Wood's Arnhem facilities which include both a pilot production plant and a new commercial-scale production facility which is nearing completion.

Carl Jastram concluded, "Roggemann can see the situation where Accoya™ wood, produced from consistently available, 100% sustainable forested wood, replaces large parts of the tropical wood that is used in joinery, decking and cladding applications. We believe that demand from our German customers could realistically exceed 10,000 m3 within a year and more, once the end-users become familiar with the many performance benefits of Accoya™ wood".

[power] 25/7/2007 11:43

Apologies if I now appear negative.
Accoya company brochure doesn't state which wood they use. They list a series of tests against other woods. Interesting to note Eucalyptus isn't one of them, because Accoya IS Eucalyptus.

It has to be painted for exterior use, and a number of paint manufacturers have carried out tests applying time guarantees if adhering to their guidelines. From experience such guarantees mean little, and by no means confer a stamp of durability upon the underlying material; in this case wood.

To clarify what I mean: A Decade or so ago, International Paints Southampton offered a similar guarantee idea for anti-fouling yachts. The underlying surface product was irrelevant. In fact it was the same product marketed for years,but marketed in a different way. Application and use guidelines were issued to activate the guarantee, rarely were they complied with exactly, which meant the guarantee was negated. In effect it was a mere insurance policy, designed precisely around the users expected failing.

Recall untreated Eucalyptus has been used for a century for European coal mine roof props.