Abrdn Property Income Share Discussion Threads

[sjl301] 27/5/2024 11:56

As API looks to be winding up, what other reits are people rotating into? Any pointers for good value alternatives as capital is returned? Cheers!

[mjames20] 27/5/2024 10:01

Hi Skyship,

Sorry, didn't realise there was another thread. Will take. read of that.

[skyship] 26/5/2024 21:02

mjames - you are clearly a newbie here; and haven't researched the available data.

No matter, move on - I'm sure you'll find other pastures to mow. Good luck...

[mjames20] 26/5/2024 20:07

Hi Skyship, thank you for the reply. I am not so are the returns are nailed on. I see two risk areas. Firstly the properties are sold below their book value. ABDRN are incentivised to make sure the discount is no more than 10% but they could be tempted to sell quickly to get on with things. Also, markets don't seem that good at the moment. Makes sense for buyers to wait for interest rates to come down before being properties with finance and so demand may be weak leading to soft prices.

Another area of potential risk is that some properties don't shift easily and the 24 month time scale drifts out to 36 months and beyond.

[skyship] 25/5/2024 21:07

mjames - well, if you don't want a cast-iron 18%pa to final redemption in 18-24months - sell now. I'll buy your stock as I'm not confident of beating that nailed-in return elsewhere!

[mjames20] 25/5/2024 17:47

Looks like this one is going to die. Anybody any thoughts on whether to sell now or hang on until the bitter end?

[essentialinvestor] 24/5/2024 15:27

Spec, I have stayed in screen watching over the last couple of days as hoped their mught be opportunities - better half none too pleased ad lunch out was cancelled ;.

[spectoacc] 24/5/2024 15:03

Good timing @EI. Agree it ought to get a bounce on Tuesday's vote, albeit some may be nervous after what happened to the previous management recommendation..

But most of us buying stock from the seller will be doing so because we support the winding up, not because we think there's any chance of blocking it.

Ideally there'll be some mention of how soon for first payout/how long for next disposals, but we may have to wait for that.

[essentialinvestor] 24/5/2024 14:58

Buying before the weekend, eh.

[essentialinvestor] 24/5/2024 13:49

May get a bit of movement bext week

Added a few more.

[essentialinvestor] 23/5/2024 16:36

Bought a few today, well over my hopeful price.

[spectoacc] 22/5/2024 09:00

Gone stable hasn't it. Next big news the result of the vote on Tuesday, then RNS's on disposals, whenever those might be.

[essentialinvestor] 22/5/2024 00:00

Chance of getting these under 48 pence has dwindled with strong recent equity markets.

[flyer61] 20/5/2024 07:48

You don't need For Sale boards.....all assets here have been in play since the abortive bids were announced. Slide rules have been run. Expecting early announcements straight after the vote if it goes as we expect. Oh and don't be surprised if it is for sizeable parts of the portfolio.

[spectoacc] 20/5/2024 06:56

Baron thinks smaller ITs inc API should concentrate on closing discounts, not on gaining size via mergers or winding up. But he fails to give any methods of closing discounts that don't make trusts still smaller.

[dr biotech] 19/5/2024 22:15

I don’t think the for sale sign can be hoisted until the vote has passed. So it may be a couple of months until first sales are announced.

[skyship] 19/5/2024 20:22

Agree with all of that...

[pavey ark] 19/5/2024 18:17

John Baron is a fan of Investment Trusts ...as am I and he is bemoaning the loss or potential loss of more than a few trusts.....for this reason logic dictates that he is not in favour of this proposal.

"a quality portfolio of mostly industrial assets across the UK under its long-serving and respected manager". .....surely not....I've heard it's badly run and just wait until we get to the "junk end" of the portfolio.....????!!!

Taking a more rational view I've long admired Jason Baggaley's careful and long term view of managing a portfolio with quality assets.

I suspect that deals are being done and I expect a number of sales to be announced soon after the 31st of May .....I also expect a number of transactions to be above the published asset value.

I don't think that JB and his team will be out of work when this deal is done.

[spectoacc] 19/5/2024 15:34

For full wind-up, definitely.

JB also failing to note that the 7.8% divi is partially capital, and has been for ages.

He'll have followers but I doubt his view moves things much.

[skyship] 19/5/2024 13:44

Specto - the point is John Baron did not make an argument against - none whatsoever!

Also Jason Baggeley surely won't wind it down quite that quickly. By the end of the year!? No, even the most optimistic projection has to be 15months + surely.

[spectoacc] 19/5/2024 13:38

JB's holdings won't be large, and if he thinks "..The outlook...continuing to look encouraging", then sales ought to be at a decent level.

IMO he's been in SLI (then API) at much higher prices, and can't bear to take the loss.

Also, he'll likely be out of a job by the end of the year.

But still interesting to see someone make an argument against the wind-up.

[flyer61] 19/5/2024 09:50

100% Skyship.

[skyship] 19/5/2024 09:10

Orinocor - thnx for alerting us to the above.

IMO JB is totally wrong to reject the proposal; and to ignore the stats is surprisingly amateur and misleading.

Herewith 2 paras from his article:

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API is held in several portfolios including the Income portfolio. The company presently stands on a c33 per cent discount, maintains a dividend that currently equates to a yield of 7.8 per cent and manages a quality portfolio of mostly industrial assets across the UK under its long-serving and respected manager, Jason Baggaley. With interest rates set to fall, inflation helping to ensure progress on rents, the outlook for its key asset continuing to look encouraging, and poor sector sentiment, I suggest now is not the time to desert the sector.

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The investment house, Abrdn (ABDN), would certainly be supportive of API continuing and would support the board in activities to narrow the discount – as it has demonstrated with other investment companies in its stable. Meanwhile, management believes company and sector prospects look set to improve: “We expect the UK real estate market to bottom out in 2024 and start to improve in the latter part of the year and into 2025.” As such, I will be voting against the board’s recommendation to wind up the company.


As to the missing stats, the wind-down will most certainly deliver 30% upside in / within 2yrs - possibly even 40%. To reject that because of the wider issue of protecting the coterie of small ITs, is frankly bizarre. JB has got it wrong; and I hope no-one makes the same mistake.

[orinocor] 18/5/2024 21:13

John Baron of the Investor Chronicle magazine is voting against the winding up proposal.